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Old 10-27-2008, 10:49 AM   #11
El-Gonzo Jackson
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Default Re: Bad Route Running and lack of WR effort

I saw the same play from Ward in those bunch formations, but you have to understand that is how he is supposed to run that pattern.

If you line up 3 guys in the bunch formation and they all sprint downfield at top speed, there is no separation in their routes. The idea is that they make breaks at designed intervals to allow the QB to make "progressive reads" of who is open.

What some are seeing as Hines not running "sharp routes" or "with lack of persistent effort" is just part of how the play is designed and how the route is supposed to be run.
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Old 10-27-2008, 12:43 PM   #12
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Default Re: Bad Route Running and lack of WR effort

If some people on the message board want to idolize certain players and make them impervious to criticism, then that is their prerogative. But to chastise other people for offering thoughtful analysis about how and why the Steelers have struggled is just stupid.

First, for those who believe we should relax because we still have the division lead, I have two things to say:
1) We have the hardest schedule ever coming up, and since we've shown we can't beat winning teams this season, EVERYBODY should be nervous.
2) Beating crappy teams doesn't win you the Superbowl. All it does is give you an inflated record that makes ESPN's analysts think you're better than you are, and ultimately sets your fans up for another epic meltdown in the postseason.

If some of the people here are content with winning our division and losing in the first round of the playoffs, then YOU are not Steelers fans. The TRUE fans are those who care about this team so much that they get upset when they see recurrent problems continually go unfixed! I am so loyal to this team that I get as furious as ever when I see us lose. But it makes me even more mad when I see a coaching staff that refuses to make the proper adjustments in order to get us a W!!

Second, our wide receivers are performing well below average, and the absence of Holmes this game was blatantly obvious (anybody can see that when we go 1-for-10 on 3rd downs, something is not normal.) Four things:
1) Limas Sweed, in my opinion, has the potential to be great, but it will take time for him to learn. Yet I DON'T KNOW WHY Tomlin waited this long to let him play!? Imagining Dallas Baker, a small-time receiver from UF, gave us a better chance to win, was a serious coaching mistake.
2) Nate Washington is unfortunately not committing himself to playing for 60 minutes. He either appears on the TV screen when there is a deep pass, or a short to intermediate pass that he dropped or messed up on. If we want to be a superbowl team, we are going to need guys to make big plays all the time, and not just look for the glamorous Randy Moss play that gets receivers on the front page of Sports Illustrated.
3) While this forum seems to be full of Hines Ward worshipers, I will say this anyway: Hines Ward is neither quick nor agile. He gets put in motion because he can't get good jumps off the line. I know some people revere him as if he were a God, but I can't ignore the fact that he is not a big play receiver anymore. His only plays are ones with blown coverage by corners. If he is such a good run blocker, we should list him as a fullback and let other taller, faster, and more agile receivers take his place. And as a warning, attacking me for criticizing Hines simply because he is Hines is NOT an argument, and I will treat you as a child if you do.
4) Anytime we throw to Heath miller, nothing but good things happen. Why we don't do this more, I don't know. Once again, an inability of the entire offensive unit, from players to coaches, to work together effectively and put together a winning team.

Third, Bruce Arians is the worst offensive coordinator in the NFL. He designs terrible plays that either never work, or work too late. There are countless times when I see wide receivers running 15-20 yards before they turn around when all we need is 5 yards for the first down. There are also times when we waste our tight ends and backs as blockers, instead of getting them out into the open field (which is open because of the blitzes the other team just sent.) And we continually look confused, unprepared, and entirely out of rhythm on the offensive side of the ball. The plays we have don't work, and the Cowher mentality that we need to play tough is holding us back from being great. We have passing weapons that can shred opposing defenses. If we continue to misuse our receivers, tight ends, and running backs, we'll never be a superbowl team. And until we start playing to the level I KNOW we can play at, I will not be a happy Steelers fan.
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Old 10-27-2008, 12:50 PM   #13
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Default Re: Bad Route Running and lack of WR effort

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Originally Posted by sweeeed View Post
If some of the people here are content with winning our division and losing in the first round of the playoffs, then YOU are not Steelers fans. The TRUE fans are those who care about this team so much that they get upset when they see recurrent problems continually go unfixed!
1. Who ever said they were "content" with winning the division and then going one-and-done in the playoffs? Point it out. This team AIN'T gonna win a SB every year. Nor do they "owe" you one either. Sorry to burst your bubble.

2. "True fans" don't come out twice over seven games to bitch and spew knee-jerk reactionary BS when we lose and then completely disappear after wins. Sorry, they don't. That's what bandwagoners do. There's nothing wrong with constructive criticism. There's a lot wrong with sky-is-falling reactionary BS. There's also a big difference between the two.
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Old 10-27-2008, 01:10 PM   #14
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Default Re: Bad Route Running and lack of WR effort

I thought bandwagon fans only show up when the team wins?!?!?
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Old 10-27-2008, 01:14 PM   #15
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Default Re: Bad Route Running and lack of WR effort

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I thought bandwagon fans only show up when the team wins?!?!?
I guess it depends on your definition of the word. My definition of the word includes those who have been spoiled rotten by the team's historical success and think the team "owes" them a championship every single year without fail and only come out to offer knee-jerk complaints when it loses. It's easy to support a team when it wins - it becomes tougher when the team hits a rough spot. Offering nothing but knee-jerk proclamations of who should be fired/benched/cut, how bad the team "sucks," etc., etc., after a tough loss doesn't count as support, IMO.

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Old 10-27-2008, 01:26 PM   #16
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Default Re: Bad Route Running and lack of WR effort

Third, Bruce Arians is the worst offensive coordinator in the NFL. He designs terrible plays that either never work, or work too late. There are countless times when I see wide receivers running 15-20 yards before they turn around when all we need is 5 yards for the first down. There are also times when we waste our tight ends and backs as blockers, instead of getting them out into the open field (which is open because of the blitzes the other team just sent.) And we continually look confused, unprepared, and entirely out of rhythm on the offensive side of the ball. The plays we have don't work, and the Cowher mentality that we need to play tough is holding us back from being great. We have passing weapons that can shred opposing defenses. If we continue to misuse our receivers, tight ends, and running backs, we'll never be a superbowl team. And until we start playing to the level I KNOW we can play at, I will not be a happy Steelers fan.[/QUOTE]


I don't think we need to bad mouth our recievers or were trying to...I think this comment about Arians hits it right on the nose....This happened to us against the Eagles and could happen again against the Redskins it we can't not figure out a way to play thru it ....The no huddle offense with Ben calling the plays has seemed to work and has provided Ben a comfort Zone....Lets see if Tomlin steps in here and makes some good decisions so we do not continue to make these poor offensive calls....Heath Miller is a MUST....He was not even in the line up yesterday in the 4th quarter.....
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Old 10-27-2008, 01:47 PM   #17
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Default Re: Bad Route Running and lack of WR effort

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1. Who ever said they were "content" with winning the division and then going one-and-done in the playoffs? Point it out. This team AIN'T gonna win a SB every year. Nor do they "owe" you one either. Sorry to burst your bubble.

2. "True fans" don't come out twice over seven games to bitch and spew knee-jerk reactionary BS when we lose and then completely disappear after wins. Sorry, they don't. That's what bandwagoners do. There's nothing wrong with constructive criticism. There's a lot wrong with sky-is-falling reactionary BS. There's also a big difference between the two.
When some people complain about criticism because we're 5-2 and leading the division, that means they're CONTENT with where we are. There is no getting around this one. Here's the definition of content from Webster's Dictionary: "satisfied or showing satisfaction with things as they are." That is exactly what previous posters were showing with their comments.

And I never once mentioned the word "owe" in my previous post, so I don't know why you went on a self-righteous soapbox that had no relevance to anything that I said. I don't think the team owes me anything more than having every person, from trainer to coach to player, do all they can to make sure we are in the best position to win. When I see a top 3 defense go to waste, and an offense THIS potent look like a mess, I get upset. Any rational fan would.

As to your second point, I don't come out twice every seven games. I was frustrated in the Cleveland, Baltimore, Jacksonville, and Cincinnati game when our offense struggled for much too long. I've been complaining about our lack of determination on offense for over a year. And calling what I just said "knee-jerk reactionary BS" instead of addressing what I said is exactly the kind of childish mentality that I won't take seriously.

The Steelers have some great players that are just beginning to enter into their prime. Of course we won't win the Superbowl every year, but this era of our team is when we are in the perfect position to do so! I will not be content with watching a great team with limitless potential waste away due to a lack of effort and determination.
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Old 10-27-2008, 01:51 PM   #18
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Default Re: Bad Route Running and lack of WR effort

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And I never once mentioned the word "owe" in my previous post, so I don't know why you went on a self-righteous soapbox that had no relevance to anything that I said.
Coming here and qualifying who are or aren't "true fans" isn't getting on a self-righteous soapbox? OK.

FYI, I also know the definition of "content," so feel free to drop the condescension anytime, junior. There's also the word "context." Saying we're 5-2 and on top of the division (both true statements, BTW) is a reasonable response to others that come here and act like the team will be lucky to win another game. Therefore, in this "context," it isn't being "content" at all, which brings us to the third vocabulary word of the day: "perspective." I suggest you gain a little.

Last edited by fansince'76; 10-27-2008 at 02:11 PM.
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Old 10-27-2008, 02:30 PM   #19
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Default Re: Bad Route Running and lack of WR effort

I was emphatic that I was a true fan because many people throughout this thread, including yourself, decided to take it upon themselves to lambaste anybody who did not believe in the philosophy that we should just sit on our hands and hope for the better. I do not take the claim that I am a bandwagon fan lightly. I hope you wouldn't either. Also, yours was a soapbox because you put words in my mouth and completely digressed from anything I said. My was not because I was simply answering the claim that jsteelers51191 and myself were bandwagon fans.

And you obviously don't know what content means. Some argued that they were pissed people came here and complained about what happened when we were 5-2 with the division lead. They are upset that people aren't CONTENT with where we are right now. If you read the definition I included, you'd understand that. Trying to wiggle your way out of it by claiming interpretation is difficult. Read what the posters wrote.
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Old 10-27-2008, 02:43 PM   #20
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Default Re: Bad Route Running and lack of WR effort

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Originally Posted by sweeeed View Post
I was emphatic that I was a true fan because many people throughout this thread, including yourself, decided to take it upon themselves to lambaste anybody who did not believe in the philosophy that we should just sit on our hands and hope for the better. I do not take the claim that I am a bandwagon fan lightly. I hope you wouldn't either. Also, yours was a soapbox because you put words in my mouth and completely digressed from anything I said. My was not because I was simply answering the claim that jsteelers51191 and myself were bandwagon fans.

And you obviously don't know what content means. Some argued that they were pissed people came here and complained about what happened when we were 5-2 with the division lead. They are upset that people aren't CONTENT with where we are right now. If you read the definition I included, you'd understand that. Trying to wiggle your way out of it by claiming interpretation is difficult. Read what the posters wrote.

If they would have won this game you wouldn't be here whining about it either.


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