Why register with the Steelers Fever Forums?
 • Intelligent and friendly discussions.
 • It's free and it's quick. Always.
 • Enter events in the forums calendar.
 • Very user friendly software.
 • Exclusive contests and giveaways.

 Donate to Steelers Fever, Click here
 Our 2013 Goal: $400.00 - To Date: $00.00 (00.00%)
 Home | Forums | Editorials | Shop | Tickets | Downloads | Contact Pittsburgh Steelers Forum Feed Not Just Fans. Hardcore Fans.

Go Back   Steelers Fever Forums > Miscellaneous > Locker Room


Steelers Fever Fan Shop

Doc's Sports Get FREE NFL Picks and College Football picks as well as Football Lines like live NFL Lines and updated NFL Power Rankings all at Doc's Sports Service.

Steelers Steelers - Bills Bills
August 16th, 2014, 7:30pmET

CBS
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 12-02-2008, 11:35 PM   #1
SteelersMongol
Living Legend
Supporter
 
SteelersMongol's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ulaanbaatar, MONGOLIA
Posts: 4,083
Gender: Male
Member Number: 2401
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Guantanamo 'a stain on US military'

Quote:
The tribunals used for putting suspects on trial at Guantanamo Bay are a "stain on America's military", a former military prosecutor has told the BBC in his first interview since resigning.

For Lt Col Darrel Vandeveld, a devout Catholic, the twin responsibilities of religious faith and military duty led to a profound moral crisis.

His resignation has led to charges against six inmates being dropped, at least for now, and called into question the possibility of a fair legal process at Guantanamo.

"I know so many fighting men and women who are stained by the taint of Guantanamo, so I'm here to tell the truth about Guantanamo and how a few people have sullied the American military and the constitution," he told me during an interview in his home town of Erie, Pennsylvania.

A reservist, Darrel Vandeveld was called up as a military lawyer after 9/11 and served in Iraq, Bosnia and Africa.

In 2007, he became a prosecutor for the military commissions which tried terrorist suspects held at Guantanamo Bay, a role he took enthusiastically.

"I went down there on a mission and my mission was to convict as many of these detainees as possible and put them in prison for as long as I possibly could," he told the BBC.

"I had zero doubts. I was a true believer."

But his zeal did not last long.

When he arrived, he says he found the prosecutor's office in chaos, with boxes scattered around the floor, files disorganised, evidence scattered in different places and no clear chain of command.

And more seriously, he soon discovered that defence lawyers were not receiving information which could help clear their clients, including evidence that suspects had been "mistreated" in order to secure confessions.

Accused of attack


It was one case in particular, that of a young Afghan called Mohammed Jawad, which caused most concern.

Mr Jawad was accused of throwing a grenade at a US military vehicle.

Col Vandeveld says that in a locker he found indisputable evidence that Mr Jawad had been mistreated.

After Mr Jawad had tried to commit suicide by banging his head against a wall at Guantanamo, Col Vandeveld says that psychologists who assisted interrogators advised taking advantage of Mr Jawad's vulnerability by subjecting him to specialist interrogation techniques known as "fear up".

He was also placed, Col Vandeveld says, into what was known as the "frequent flyer" programme in which he was moved from cell to cell every few hours, with the aim of preventing him sleeping properly, and securing a confession.

A devout Catholic, Col Vandeveld found himself deeply troubled by what he discovered.

But the classified nature of his work meant he was unable to share his growing doubts with friends and family.

As a result, he took the unusual step of emailing a Jesuit priest called Father John Dear, who is a well known peace activist.

In his email, Col Vandeveld talked of having "grave misgivings".

Father Dear was initially unsure if the email was serious and fashioned a quick reply.

"I sort of didn't believe it. But on the off chance he was a military prosecutor I wrote back and said 'quit'."

Col Vandeveld says his jaw dropped when he read the email, adding: "I lived in dread of that answer."

But eventually he did resign and has chosen to speak out about what he saw, giving the BBC his first interview.

"I never suffered such anguish in my life about anything," he says, looking back over the period.

"It took me too long to recognise that we had abandoned our American values and defiled our constitution."

Cases dropped

Col Vandeveld was prosecuting six cases, including that of Binyam Mohamed, the last British resident held at Guantanamo.

After his resignation, charges in these cases were dropped but with the possibility they may be re-filed at any point.

Col Vandeveld declined to discuss details of Mr Mohamed's case and others which remain classified.

But Binyam Mohamed's lawyers say he was tortured as part of the CIA's extraordinary rendition programme and are hopeful that he may not be charged again, on the grounds that this might reveal too many details of the rendition programme.

Darrel Vandeveld explains why he has gone public

Col Vandeveld was forced to undergo a mental status evaluation after expressing his concerns and his military career is over.

But he has returned to his community in Erie where local newspapers have praised the stand he took. He has no regrets.

In response to his claims, a Pentagon spokesman told the BBC: "We dispute Darrel Vandeveld's assertions and maintain the military commission process provides full and fair trials to accused unlawful enemy combatants who are charged with a variety of war crimes."

President-elect Barack Obama has said he wants to shut Guantanamo but no-one thinks it will be easy.

Col Vandeveld believes that it is possible though.

"No justice will be obtained at Guantanamo," he said. "And if that entails moving them (the suspects) temporarily to the US for trial: so be it."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7761315.stm
I agree. The whole thing that's been finally tarnished by Mu Lai in Vietnam war was finally being patched, but this Guantanamo stuff & that Abu Ghraib prison thing is ruining everything.
__________________
SteelersMongol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2008, 08:04 AM   #2
stlrtruck
THE PRINCESS' Daddy
Supporter
 
stlrtruck's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 8,783
Gender: Male
Member Number: 2398
Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts
Default Re: Guantanamo 'a stain on US military'

It amazes me that the world wants the United States to play by the rules but when the enemy are using torturing methods and similar methods against our own soldiers, it seems the world wants to turn a blind eye to it.
I'm not for the torture but I don't think we need to put them up in a hotel with catering and everything else either.
Yes a few went overboard but it doesn't mean the world is going to come crashing down or that these prisoners aren't guilty either!
__________________

60 Minutes, 53 Men, 6 Trophies,1 NATION. . .STEELERS NATION!!!
Sig courtesy of STEELAX04
stlrtruck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2008, 09:50 PM   #3
Hammer Of The GODS
Starter
Supporter
 
Hammer Of The GODS's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: I LIVE IN REALITY
Posts: 551
Gender: Male
Member Number: 8148
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: Guantanamo 'a stain on US military'

Maybe if this country used a little more torture and more aggression towards our enemies we wouldn't have so many enemies !!!

The worlds full of evil and sometimes you gotta play dirty and kick evil in the balls!
__________________
Hammer Of The GODS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2008, 10:13 PM   #4
GBMelBlount
Living Legend
Supporter
 
GBMelBlount's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Western PA
Posts: 6,203
Gender: Male
Member Number: 5140
Thanks: 1,138
Thanked 2,067 Times in 946 Posts
Default Re: Guantanamo 'a stain on US military'

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelersMongol View Post
I agree. The whole thing that's been finally tarnished by Mu Lai in Vietnam war was finally being patched, but this Guantanamo stuff & that Abu Ghraib prison thing is ruining everything.
Huh? What? You're kidding right?
__________________
If I could be like that,
what would I do,
What would I do..."

~ 3 Doors Down

GBMelBlount is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2008, 10:38 PM   #5
JPPT1974
Bench Warmer
 
JPPT1974's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Seymour TN
Posts: 255
Gender: Female
Member Number: 5361
Thanks: 39
Thanked 30 Times in 24 Posts
My Mood: Shocked
Default Re: Guantanamo 'a stain on US military'

I am not for toture but am for justice, first and foremost!
__________________
School Season is Here!
JPPT1974 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2008, 11:07 PM   #6
MasterOfPuppets
Living Legend
Supporter
 
MasterOfPuppets's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 14,088
Gender: Male
Member Number: 1990
Thanks: 860
Thanked 3,524 Times in 1,531 Posts
Default Re: Guantanamo 'a stain on US military'

kill em all and let god sort em out !!!
__________________
“If tyranny and oppression come to this land it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.” ― James Madison

"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty." - Thomas Jefferson

"The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first." -Thomas Jefferson

"The man who reads nothing at all is better educated than the man who reads nothing but newspapers." - Thomas Jefferson

MasterOfPuppets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2008, 02:53 AM   #7
Preacher
Living Legend
 

Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 3,890
Member Number: 16327
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default Re: Guantanamo 'a stain on US military'

What I don't understand, is the fact that these terrorists were breaking the law as far as military justice is concerned.

1. They must wear SOME KIND of insignia in order to be identified as combat soldiers. If they just take a marker and draw something.. they can be identified. But they don't, they are illegal combatants.

2. The attack with reckless abandon, harming innocent civilians. Have innocents been hurt by our side? Yes. However, we attempt to make sure that doesn't happen. If we didn't care, We'd just take care of the whole thing from 30,000 feet.

3. They are using Mosques, homes of innocents, females, and DD people in various ways. All against the Geneva convention.

Yet WE are harming OUR reputation by 2 jails where we are pushing the envelope?

Preacher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2008, 08:20 AM   #8
revefsreleets
Living Legend
 
revefsreleets's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Akron, Ohio Home of LeBron James
Posts: 15,403
Gender: Male
Member Number: 5353
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: Guantanamo 'a stain on US military'

Sleep deprivation? Really?

Again, I suffered sleep deprivation for 5 years. It was called college.

I'm sure there are some incidents here and there of extreme abuses. It's human nature that some people will go too far. But this is NOT some systemic and organized vast conspiracy to institute state sanctioned torture.
__________________
Official Steelersfever Arians Nuthugger
revefsreleets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2008, 09:01 AM   #9
Godfather
Living Legend
Supporter
 

Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,140
Member Number: 547
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: Guantanamo 'a stain on US military'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammer Of The GODS View Post
Maybe if this country used a little more torture and more aggression towards our enemies we wouldn't have so many enemies !!!

The worlds full of evil and sometimes you gotta play dirty and kick evil in the balls!
One of our best interrogators begs to differ:

Good cop tactics work better
Godfather is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2008, 12:11 PM   #10
Hammer Of The GODS
Starter
Supporter
 
Hammer Of The GODS's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: I LIVE IN REALITY
Posts: 551
Gender: Male
Member Number: 8148
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: Guantanamo 'a stain on US military'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Godfather View Post
One of our best interrogators begs to differ:

Good cop tactics work better

Nice "story"! I was there and I can tell you two facts from my experience in fighting for my country.

1. I was sent on a mission that I wont reveal in detail but it was a night op and we had air support from the Air Force. In the months that followed (the successful operation ) an officer in the "Air Force" ( same as the clown in the story ) began to stir up trouble and tell "his side of the story" about the events that took place. Everyone involved was brought in twice to testify to what they saw, and it was in direct contradiction to what the "Air Force" officer saw or "said" he saw. The events that took place didn't involve torture, but it parallels that story. Point is that sometimes "the empty can rattles the most".

2. Lies,cheating and backstabbing are not monopolized by the civilian career climber! Military officers and "lifers" can and will use unethical tactics to get ahead.


What I get from that article is a guy who is getting book deals and 15 minutes of fame all the while writing under a pseudonym. Why the pseudonym ?

Lt.Col. Robert "Buzz" Patterson wrote a book about the "nuclear football" ( can't get any more classified that that ) yet he wrote under his real name.


I stand by my assertion.
__________________
Hammer Of The GODS is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:15 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Shoutbox provided by vBShout v6.2.1 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.0.8 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd. Runs best on HiVelocity Hosting.
Navbar with Avatar by Motorradforum
no new posts