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Old 12-22-2008, 03:36 AM   #1
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Default 3rd and short/Arian's and Tomlin

17 times the Steelers have had 3rd and 4:

15 times in the shotgun formation; 2 sacks, 1 interception, 1 offensive penalty, 1 defensive penalty, 3 failed passes, 7 successful passes, 2 sucessful QB rushes

On 3rd and 4 we have ran 15 pass plays on 17 attempts, we converted successfully on 7 out of 15 pass attempts and 2 out of 2 rush attempts.

14 times the Steelers have had 3rd and 3:

9 times in the shotgun formation; 1 sack, 1 offensive penalty, 4 failed passes, 6 successful passes and 2 successful rushes

On 3rd and 3 we have ran 12 pass plays on 14 attempts, we converted successfully on 6 out of 12 pass attempts and 2 out of 2 rush attempts.

24 times the Steelers have had 3rd and 2:

11 times in the shotgun formation; 5 sacks, 3 interceptions, 3 failed passes, 2 defensive penalties, 9 successful passes and 2 successful rushes.

On 3rd and 2 we have ran 20 pass plays on 24 attempts, we converted successfully on 9 out of 20 pass attempts and 2 out of 2 rush attempts.

27 times the Steelers have had 3rd and 1:

4 times in the shotgun formation; 2 sacks, 1 failed QB sneak, 3 failed passes, 7 failed rushes, 1 successful pass, 11 successful rushes, 2 successful QB sneaks.

On 3rd and 1 we have ran 6 pass plays on 27 attempts, we converted successfully on 1 out of 6 pass attempts and 13 out of 21 rush attempts.


What does this all amount to?

1. Arian's is an idiot
2. Arian's has called for shotgun 39 out of 82 times we have been faced with 3rd down and 4 or less. 15 shotgun formations on 17 3rd and 4's.
3. Arian's has called for 53 pass plays out of 82 times we have been faced with 3rd down and 4 or less.
4. We have converted 23 out of 53 pass plays on 3rd and 4 or less and have converted 19 out of 27 rush attempts on 3rd and 4 or less, the difference in rush success over pass success being clear as day yet Arian's continues to call twice as many pass plays in those 3rd and 4 or less situations.
5. 4 out of 14 of Roethlisberger's INT's have come in these situations.
6. These situations were directly responsible for the Giants and Colts losses.
7. At this point in the season Tomlin is just as guilty as Arian's for not having done anything to correct the "situation"
8. Arian's is an idiot.
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Old 12-22-2008, 03:53 AM   #2
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Default Re: 3rd and short/Arian's and Tomlin

I wouldn't exactly say that Tomlin is just as respinsible for this as Arians.

While I would love to run more on 3rd-and-short...we don't exactly have the personnel to do that either. Parker isn't a power back, and Moore isn't quite a power back either.

We all got spoiled with Jerome Bettis and even Staley with their power style of running the ball. When there was no hole, both of them were able to make one or move the pile for the most part.

Our offensive line stinks at run blocking and pass blocking this season. I've seen us get stuffed on 3rd and short running the ball. Goal line against Dallas, we got the ball with less than a yard to go and our supposed "power" back got stuffed losing two yards.

Maybe things would be different if Mendenhall never got hurt, and if Willie never got hurt.

Parker hasn't been right really since he hurt his knee...and then his shoulder. Mendenhall was supposed to be a nice blend of power and some speed...but he got hurt so we won't know till next year. Moore has done an excellent job in the wake of their injuries, but he isn't an every-down back.

Things would be different if we still had Smith at LT, because at least he was a road grader. Simmons couldn't pass block that well, but he too was a road grader. Kemo is damn sure no Faneca when it comes to blocking the run or the pass.

Anyhow, didn't everyone complain about how Cowher's offense, especially once we got to the playoffs, was run-run-incomplete pass-punt...aka way to predictable?
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Old 12-22-2008, 04:14 AM   #3
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Default Re: 3rd and short/Arian's and Tomlin

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Originally Posted by RoethlisBURGHer View Post
I wouldn't exactly say that Tomlin is just as respinsible for this as Arians.

While I would love to run more on 3rd-and-short...we don't exactly have the personnel to do that either. Parker isn't a power back, and Moore isn't quite a power back either.

We all got spoiled with Jerome Bettis and even Staley with their power style of running the ball. When there was no hole, both of them were able to make one or move the pile for the most part.

Our offensive line stinks at run blocking and pass blocking this season. I've seen us get stuffed on 3rd and short running the ball. Goal line against Dallas, we got the ball with less than a yard to go and our supposed "power" back got stuffed losing two yards.

Maybe things would be different if Mendenhall never got hurt, and if Willie never got hurt.

Parker hasn't been right really since he hurt his knee...and then his shoulder. Mendenhall was supposed to be a nice blend of power and some speed...but he got hurt so we won't know till next year. Moore has done an excellent job in the wake of their injuries, but he isn't an every-down back.

Things would be different if we still had Smith at LT, because at least he was a road grader. Simmons couldn't pass block that well, but he too was a road grader. Kemo is damn sure no Faneca when it comes to blocking the run or the pass.

Anyhow, didn't everyone complain about how Cowher's offense, especially once we got to the playoffs, was run-run-incomplete pass-punt...aka way to predictable?
I agree, and if he is healthy and is practicing well then he needs to be in there for the playoff run!

Hell, throw Starks at RT and take Colon the hell out of there. JMO.
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Old 12-22-2008, 04:32 AM   #4
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Default Re: 3rd and short/Arian's and Tomlin

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Anyhow, didn't everyone complain about how Cowher's offense, especially once we got to the playoffs, was run-run-incomplete pass-punt...aka way to predictable?
I wish I was on this forum when those people were complaining about Cowher, then I could've seen how the "non-negative forum clique" feels when I post my "negative" posts about Arian's/Tomlin.

Cowhers personnel consisted of Neil O'Donnell, Kordell Stewart, Eric Green, Yancy Thigpen, Barry Foster, Charles Johnson, Leroy Thompson, Mike Tomczak, Erric Pegram and Tommy Maddox. His run-run-incomplete along with the above cast of characters got us 10 seasons of 10 wins or more and 10 playoff berths in 15 seasons total. He got us to the Superbowl twice and the AFC conference game 5 times. For all that with the players he was given, Cowher should've been given a F'ing medal.


When he was FINALLY given a franchise QB with a franchise WR at the same time, he won us a Superbowl.
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Old 12-22-2008, 04:39 AM   #5
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Default Re: 3rd and short/Arian's and Tomlin

What happened to Gary Russell we were using him in some of the short yardage situations and know we don't even use him we need to get back to those short yardage runs the way we use to.
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Old 12-22-2008, 04:42 AM   #6
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Default Re: 3rd and short/Arian's and Tomlin

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Originally Posted by NYC SteelersFan View Post
I wish I was on this forum when those people were complaining about Cowher, then I could've seen how the "non-negative forum clique" feels when I post my "negative" posts about Arian's/Tomlin.

Cowhers personnel consisted of Neil O'Donnell, Kordell Stewart, Eric Green, Yancy Thigpen, Barry Foster, Charles Johnson, Leroy Thompson, Mike Tomczak, Erric Pegram and Tommy Maddox. His run-run-incomplete along with the above cast of characters got us 10 seasons of 10 wins or more and 10 playoff berths in 15 seasons total. He got us to the Superbowl twice and the AFC conference game 5 times. For all that with the players he was given, Cowher should've been given a F'ing medal.


When he was FINALLY given a franchise QB with a franchise WR at the same time, he won us a Superbowl.

Wow, I agree with you. The only thing I would say is that we should have made at least one other SB, 1994 (afcc) was the one we should have won. That Chargers team was not even close to the talent overall that we had and Cowher had no excuse to lose that game. 2004 we had a rookie QB and that was the difference.
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Old 12-22-2008, 04:52 AM   #7
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Default Re: 3rd and short/Arian's and Tomlin

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Wow, I agree with you. The only thing I would say is that we should have made at least one other SB, 1994 (afcc) was the one we should have won. That Chargers team was not even close to the talent overall that we had and Cowher had no excuse to lose that game. 2001 we had a rookie QB and that was the difference.
Barry Foster was completely bottled up, won't even blame that one on Cowher as bad of a loss as it was. I'll take Cowher back next year if he wanted to return. That is a coach who knows how to turn $hit into gold. I'm sure he would do wonders for this o-line and non-existent rush scheme.
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Old 12-22-2008, 04:55 AM   #8
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Default Re: 3rd and short/Arian's and Tomlin

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What happened to Gary Russell we were using him in some of the short yardage situations and know we don't even use him we need to get back to those short yardage runs the way we use to.
I dunno it seems like since he got stuffed on goal line against the cowboys they've lost their faith in him....sad cause he his the only ''power runner'' we have
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Old 12-22-2008, 10:37 AM   #9
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Default Re: 3rd and short/Arian's and Tomlin

I think Tomlin is a guy that empowers his coordinators/players and expects them to perform like professionals. I am not a fan of Arians system, but think Tomlin's loyalty to his guys is admirable.....but he may have to rethink that.

Did you see the sunday night game where the Panthers have converted on 3rd and1 or 4th and 1,.,,,,15 of 17 times this season?? They did it with Williams, Stewart and Hoover too. John Fox has built a running game that I am envious of. It starts with Gross, Otah, Kalil and a physical mentality.
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Old 12-22-2008, 02:40 PM   #10
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Default Re: 3rd and short/Arian's and Tomlin

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I think Tomlin is a guy that empowers his coordinators/players and expects them to perform like professionals. I am not a fan of Arians system, but think Tomlin's loyalty to his guys is admirable.....but he may have to rethink that.

Did you see the sunday night game where the Panthers have converted on 3rd and1 or 4th and 1,.,,,,15 of 17 times this season?? They did it with Williams, Stewart and Hoover too. John Fox has built a running game that I am envious of. It starts with Gross, Otah, Kalil and a physical mentality.
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