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Old 12-27-2005, 12:55 PM   #31
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Default Re: ty law intercepting tom brady

ill just list that the steelers are 23-0 the last 2 seasons with ben on the roster when they rush for 100+ yds. troy aikman didnt have many 300 yd games either

the same list you did with brady could be done with mcnabb, however the steelers arent nor do they need to be a west coast offense or hybrid of it to win or prove that ben is a good qb.they are a power running team with a hall of fame rb. that doesnt mean ben couldnt go to eagles or patriots and fill in for an injured mcnabb or brady with minimal drop off.

look at the list you posted. every game brady threw 300+ yards look how many points the opposition scored and how close the games were. 8 times out of 10 the steelers never let the games get that close to have to abandon the running game. it is true that due to a premiere defense ben has little experience being in shoot outs but that is not because he is incapable of doing so. ben couldve thrown for 600+ yds against the browns if cowher wanted to run up the score. that is not his philosophy though. he is 99-1-1 with a lead of 10+ points. with stats like that it only makes sense to take the air out of the ball. its solid football philosophy.

i think you have confused rookie inexperience from last years afcc game with a lack of ability. sure ben has made some mistakes (like the same mistake brady made throwing the ball where ty law could pick it off.) now you dont have to accept that but it is a fact. every qb makes mistakes, even brady. theres a reason why a rookie qb like orton was benched in favor of grossman. theres also a reason why a 1st year starter like ben or brady were left in when the starters returned healthy. im sure you will hate that comparisson too but the fact remains the same. the teams had a better chance of winning with the incumbents.
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Old 12-27-2005, 01:14 PM   #32
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Default Re: ty law intercepting tom brady

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingKoopa
i know what you are trying to say but why do the steelers and bengals have a LOSING RECORD but with the pats it's only 4-5?
LOL ok Koops - if it makes ya feel better the Patriots have a 4-5 LOSING RECORD against the listed teams.

The real reason I typed it different is because putting the Pats in was kind of an afterthought and I didnt want to bore you with more stuff about injuries and how this isn't the same team as the one from the first 8 games.

NM
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They've been great for a while now, three Super Bowls' worth of great. But only this season have the New England Patriots become The Show, the must-see team of stars, pretty boys and reformed bad boys. Suddenly, the Patriots are not simply great; they're compelling, fascinating, appearing to be almighty and a touch lawless.
The Patriots didn't bother with swagger to start this NFL season; they went straight to defiant. Either you're one of them or you're about to get crushed.
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Old 12-27-2005, 01:33 PM   #33
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Default Re: ty law intercepting tom brady

Quote:
Originally Posted by tony hipchest
but seriously please name a few qb's who have beaten quality opponents or descent teams without the help of a running game? it sounds like youre saying that a qb will never be good until the team makes 0 rushing attempts and they beat a sb contending team running the 5 wr set exclusively. fact is running the ball is as big of a part of football as throwing it. just ask the participants of sb 25. ask j. elway or t. davis, emmit smith or franco harris.
You will notice the part I highlighted Tony - you ought to put more thought into your posts if you are going to contradict yourself on consecutive efforts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tony hipchest
brady still hasnt proven to me he can beat a descent team without excellent protection from an offensive line. ben can fight through line breakdowns.
I showed you who our -"excellent protection" was - a bunch of rookies and late round rejects

Quote:
Originally Posted by tony hipchest
brady still hasnt proven he can beat descent teams without a kicker putting the ball through the uprights for him.......
I proved this to you just now with the list I compiled - the fact remains - when the running game of Pittsburgh falters Ben hasn't been able to pick up the slack - this doesnt make him a bad QB it just means he is not in Brady's class.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tony hipchest
that doesnt mean ben couldnt go to eagles or patriots and fill in for an injured mcnabb or brady with minimal drop off.

Basically Tony you asked me to prove to you that Brady or any other QB can get it done with no running game - and when I did that you totally changed your tack - telling us all about 'power running games' and how they mean that Ben doesn't need to throw so much.

I gave you facts Tony - you gave me back reheated arguments about Troy Aikmen, H.O.F Running backs and guesswork regarding the theorectical situation of Ben being the New England QB.

NM
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They've been great for a while now, three Super Bowls' worth of great. But only this season have the New England Patriots become The Show, the must-see team of stars, pretty boys and reformed bad boys. Suddenly, the Patriots are not simply great; they're compelling, fascinating, appearing to be almighty and a touch lawless.
The Patriots didn't bother with swagger to start this NFL season; they went straight to defiant. Either you're one of them or you're about to get crushed.
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Old 12-27-2005, 01:43 PM   #34
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Default Re: ty law intercepting tom brady

Quote:
Originally Posted by Livinginthe past
LOL ok Koops - if it makes ya feel better the Patriots have a 4-5 LOSING RECORD against the listed teams.

The real reason I typed it different is because putting the Pats in was kind of an afterthought and I didnt want to bore you with more stuff about injuries and how this isn't the same team as the one from the first 8 games.

NM
why thank you, i feel a lot better lol, anyway any news on tedys leg?
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Old 12-27-2005, 01:52 PM   #35
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Default Re: ty law intercepting tom brady

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Originally Posted by KingKoopa
why thank you, i feel a lot better lol, anyway any news on tedys leg?
Well because we get little or no help from the Patriots media department regarding injuries - the leg could have fallen clean off in the night and we would know nothing about it!

Apparently there have been X-rays that have come up negative - but at this stage of the year it wouldnt take much to rule a player out for the rest of the season.

Its all guesswork at this point - having looked at replays my immediate thought was an impact injury (heavy bruising or a break) - but then it could be a minor tear or ligament damage ...who knows.

On the plus side Bruschi is super-flexible - he had a sick moment against the Eagles where his leg bent back right on itself after it became trapped under him - 30 seconds later he was jogging to the sideline with a big grin on his face.

NM
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They've been great for a while now, three Super Bowls' worth of great. But only this season have the New England Patriots become The Show, the must-see team of stars, pretty boys and reformed bad boys. Suddenly, the Patriots are not simply great; they're compelling, fascinating, appearing to be almighty and a touch lawless.
The Patriots didn't bother with swagger to start this NFL season; they went straight to defiant. Either you're one of them or you're about to get crushed.
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Old 12-27-2005, 02:18 PM   #36
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Default Re: ty law intercepting tom brady

Quote:
Originally Posted by Livinginthe past
You will notice the part I highlighted Tony - you ought to put more thought into your posts if you are going to contradict yourself on consecutive efforts.



I showed you who our -"excellent protection" was - a bunch of rookies and late round rejects



I proved this to you just now with the list I compiled - the fact remains - when the running game of Pittsburgh falters Ben hasn't been able to pick up the slack - this doesnt make him a bad QB it just means he is not in Brady's class.




Basically Tony you asked me to prove to you that Brady or any other QB can get it done with no running game - and when I did that you totally changed your tack - telling us all about 'power running games' and how they mean that Ben doesn't need to throw so much.

I gave you facts Tony - you gave me back reheated arguments about Troy Aikmen, H.O.F Running backs and guesswork regarding the theorectical situation of Ben being the New England QB.

NM
your facts about ben are based on 3 losses in a very short career. yet youve written the book on him. i guess thats why john elway never won a superbowl right? because he lost 3 of them. ben has passed his team to victory plenty of times. all your list showed me was that the running game and defense faltered on many different occasions.

ask any gm coach or football guru what theyd rather have. a rb who runs for 27 td's or a qb who throws for that many? a qb who throws for 4200 yds or a back who can run for 2000. all but mike martz would go with the running back. brady has posted the numbers he has out of necessity. if dillon had put up the numbers of s. alexander (like many thought he would) i guarantee 'chick wouldnt have him throwing the ball as much.

i can accept the fact that ben cant win without the running game if you can accept that brady cant win without the kicking game. really do they win 3 of the last 4 sb's with dallas' kickers? does billy cundif or jose cortez hit the tie and game winner in the snow against oakland. are they clutch enough to kick the game winner in the big one? if not brady is just another jim kelly, d. mcnabb, or d. marino. great individual stats but no rings.

if ben had lost 10-15 games when he fails to have 100 yds + in rushing support i might buy your facts. however your opinion is based on 3-4 games.
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Old 12-27-2005, 02:22 PM   #37
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Default Re: ty law intercepting tom brady

Quote:
Originally Posted by tony hipchest
your facts about ben are based on 3 losses in a very short career. yet youve written the book on him. i guess thats why john elway never won a superbowl right? because he lost 3 of them. ben has passed his team to victory plenty of times. all your list showed me was that the running game and defense faltered on many different occasions.

ask any gm coach or football guru what theyd rather have. a rb who runs for 27 td's or a qb who throws for that many? a qb who throws for 4200 yds or a back who can run for 2000. all but mike martz would go with the running back. brady has posted the numbers he has out of necessity. if dillon had put up the numbers of s. alexander (like many thought he would) i guarantee 'chick wouldnt have him throwing the ball as much.

i can accept the fact that ben cant win without the running game if you can accept that brady cant win without the kicking game. really do they win 3 of the last 4 sb's with dallas' kickers? does billy cundif or jose cortez hit the tie and game winner in the snow against oakland. are they clutch enough to kick the game winner in the big one? if not brady is just another jim kelly, d. mcnabb, or d. marino. great individual stats but no rings.

if ben had lost 10-15 games when he fails to have 100 yds + in rushing support i might buy your facts. however your opinion is based on 3-4 games.
John Elway didn't win a Super Bowl, yet he won two... Wow would I hate to be him...

BTW, I forgot about Bruschi's leg, hope he's alright! :D
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Old 12-27-2005, 02:39 PM   #38
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Default Re: ty law intercepting tom brady

yes. elway beat the falcons and green bay in 97 and 96. that comment was fecetious. people said he couldnt win the big one much like they say about ben.
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Old 12-27-2005, 02:43 PM   #39
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Default Re: ty law intercepting tom brady

Quote:
Originally Posted by tony hipchest
i can accept the fact that ben cant win without the running game if you can accept that brady cant win without the kicking game. really do they win 3 of the last 4 sb's with dallas' kickers? does billy cundif or jose cortez hit the tie and game winner in the snow against oakland. are they clutch enough to kick the game winner in the big one? if not brady is just another jim kelly, d. mcnabb, or d. marino. great individual stats but no rings.
hey hey hey, cortez is clutch, he's an xfl champion lol
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Old 12-27-2005, 03:14 PM   #40
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Default Re: ty law intercepting tom brady

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingKoopa
hey hey hey, cortez is clutch, he's an xfl champion lol
thats right, hes cut from the same cloth as tommy gun! lol
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