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An important history lesson for you TRUE Steelers fans!

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Old 12-27-2005, 04:15 PM   #41
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Default Re: ty law intercepting tom brady

Quote:
Originally Posted by tony hipchest
your facts about ben are based on 3 losses in a very short career. yet youve written the book on him. i guess thats why john elway never won a superbowl right? because he lost 3 of them. ben has passed his team to victory plenty of times. all your list showed me was that the running game and defense faltered on many different occasions.

ask any gm coach or football guru what theyd rather have. a rb who runs for 27 td's or a qb who throws for that many? a qb who throws for 4200 yds or a back who can run for 2000. all but mike martz would go with the running back. brady has posted the numbers he has out of necessity. if dillon had put up the numbers of s. alexander (like many thought he would) i guarantee 'chick wouldnt have him throwing the ball as much.

i can accept the fact that ben cant win without the running game if you can accept that brady cant win without the kicking game. really do they win 3 of the last 4 sb's with dallas' kickers? does billy cundif or jose cortez hit the tie and game winner in the snow against oakland. are they clutch enough to kick the game winner in the big one? if not brady is just another jim kelly, d. mcnabb, or d. marino. great individual stats but no rings.

if ben had lost 10-15 games when he fails to have 100 yds + in rushing support i might buy your facts. however your opinion is based on 3-4 games.
Hey Tony,

How about we take a little trip back in time...way waaaaay back to the start of this thread.

This was where you made your tongue-in-cheek comparison between Ben and Brady, and in particular their throws for an interceptions.

This led to you asking me to prove that Brady or some other QB could beat good opposition without the help of a running game - well I did it....I laid it right out out for you.
At no point did I ever say Ben wasn't an excellent QB - my point was that he hasnt PROVED (there's that word again) he can win without a running game.

I refuse to be drawn into nonsense arguments about field goal kickers - it is a horrible cliche to say it is all down to them to win the game....who do you think drives the team into a game winning field position?

I have no idea what you are talking about when you say that Brady wouldnt have thrown as much if Dillon had run better this year......that is so blindingly obvious I cant think why you would even mention it.

The point is when Brady is lacking a D (2001 and early this year) or lacking a decent running game (2001, 2002, 2003, 2005) he has found ways to win - I cannot think how to put this any more clearly.

Ben is a talented QB but he has simply not proven he can get the job done when his running game is taken away from him.

NM
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They've been great for a while now, three Super Bowls' worth of great. But only this season have the New England Patriots become The Show, the must-see team of stars, pretty boys and reformed bad boys. Suddenly, the Patriots are not simply great; they're compelling, fascinating, appearing to be almighty and a touch lawless.
The Patriots didn't bother with swagger to start this NFL season; they went straight to defiant. Either you're one of them or you're about to get crushed.
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Old 12-27-2005, 05:07 PM   #42
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Default Re: ty law intercepting tom brady

(Totally unrelated, but...)

I thought it was interesting that, in the first EVER ABC Monday Night Football game, the Jets lost 31-21 (To Cleveland) and, 35 years later, in the LAST ABC Monday Night Football game, the Jets lost 31-21.
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Old 12-27-2005, 05:19 PM   #43
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Default Re: ty law intercepting tom brady

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suitanim
(Totally unrelated, but...)

I thought it was interesting that, in the first EVER ABC Monday Night Football game, the Jets lost 31-21 (To Cleveland) and, 35 years later, in the LAST ABC Monday Night Football game, the Jets lost 31-21.
Yeah that was a freaky piece of symmetry. I dont think many would have predicted the jets putting up 21 points when it took them almost 2.5 quarters to put up a 1st down - which came courtesy of a penalty.

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They've been great for a while now, three Super Bowls' worth of great. But only this season have the New England Patriots become The Show, the must-see team of stars, pretty boys and reformed bad boys. Suddenly, the Patriots are not simply great; they're compelling, fascinating, appearing to be almighty and a touch lawless.
The Patriots didn't bother with swagger to start this NFL season; they went straight to defiant. Either you're one of them or you're about to get crushed.
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Old 12-27-2005, 06:01 PM   #44
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Default Re: ty law intercepting tom brady

well i didn't notice that shit, this shit is rigged, those dirty abc b@stards lol
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Old 12-27-2005, 06:08 PM   #45
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Default Re: ty law intercepting tom brady

Yeah it is rigged, they just wanted Testeverde to get the record..
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Old 12-27-2005, 06:22 PM   #46
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Default Re: ty law intercepting tom brady

Quote:
Originally Posted by Livinginthe past
Ben is a talented QB but he has simply not proven he can get the job done when his running game is taken away from him.

NM
i guess we will see when someone actually takes the running game away from him now wont we? (this is where you quote the games he lost)

pats in playoffs
pats this season where he and the running game played fine and well enough to win
colts -his injuries or rust are no excuse- he lost it
bengals- 386 yds and 3 td 3 int.

he hasnt had the opportunity to prove what you seem to feel he cant do.
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Old 12-27-2005, 06:57 PM   #47
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Default Re: ty law intercepting tom brady

Actually, I consider it a great honor that Ben at 23 years old, playing 3 years of College at a MAC school, not having the advantage of sitting in the NFL for a year or two to tutor under a veteran QB is even worthy of comparison of QB's who have had all those benefits Ben hasn't. It's exciting to think of how much upside, just how much potential there is to be unlocked there!
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Old 12-27-2005, 07:04 PM   #48
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Default Re: ty law intercepting tom brady

Quote:
Originally Posted by tony hipchest
i guess we will see when someone actually takes the running game away from him now wont we? (this is where you quote the games he lost)

pats in playoffs
pats this season where he and the running game played fine and well enough to win
colts -his injuries or rust are no excuse- he lost it
bengals- 386 yds and 3 td 3 int.

he hasnt had the opportunity to prove what you seem to feel he cant do.
Where oh where did I ever say that Ben couldn't do it?

What I said is that, up to this point, he has been unable to manage it - simple as that.

Surely you would employ someone to fix your car who KNEW THEY COULD FIX IT and HAD DONE IT BEFORE rather than some guy who THINKS HE MAY BE ABLE TO.

Maybe someday in the future (maybe this year) he will be able to rescue the Steelers when a playoff team shuts down the Pittsburgh running game.

NM
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They've been great for a while now, three Super Bowls' worth of great. But only this season have the New England Patriots become The Show, the must-see team of stars, pretty boys and reformed bad boys. Suddenly, the Patriots are not simply great; they're compelling, fascinating, appearing to be almighty and a touch lawless.
The Patriots didn't bother with swagger to start this NFL season; they went straight to defiant. Either you're one of them or you're about to get crushed.

Last edited by Livinginthe past; 12-27-2005 at 07:08 PM.
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Old 12-27-2005, 07:06 PM   #49
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Default Re: ty law intercepting tom brady

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suitanim
Actually, I consider it a great honor that Ben at 23 years old, playing 3 years of College at a MAC school, not having the advantage of sitting in the NFL for a year or two to tutor under a veteran QB is even worthy of comparison of QB's who have had all those benefits Ben hasn't. It's exciting to think of how much upside, just how much potential there is to be unlocked there!
Thats one thing i've always maintained about Ben - the amount of potential he has.

In a weird way, having such a strong running attack might have slowed his progress as a QB a little - but I think the adversity he has faced this year will put him in good stead for the rest of his career.

NM
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They've been great for a while now, three Super Bowls' worth of great. But only this season have the New England Patriots become The Show, the must-see team of stars, pretty boys and reformed bad boys. Suddenly, the Patriots are not simply great; they're compelling, fascinating, appearing to be almighty and a touch lawless.
The Patriots didn't bother with swagger to start this NFL season; they went straight to defiant. Either you're one of them or you're about to get crushed.

Last edited by Livinginthe past; 12-27-2005 at 07:10 PM.
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Old 12-27-2005, 07:09 PM   #50
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Default Re: ty law intercepting tom brady

Think about it...when Carson Palmer was 23 years old, he had just won the Heisman Trophy, and was only dreaming of the NFL. When Tom Brady was 23, he was sitting on the bench in NE tutoring under Bledsoe. When Peyton Manning was 23 years old, he was ahead of the curve...but he was also winging the ball 500+ times a season, so his numbers are a bit skewed.
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