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Old 01-04-2006, 06:43 PM   #51
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Default Re: Brett Favre, the greatest of all-time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tony hipchest
ok i flipped the teams. it seems you think there were alot of great packer teams and farve held them back. you put montana on the steelers and they win the superbowl every year between 92-06 (including 1995, 1997, 1998, 2001, and last year and then again this year).

interresting note in comparing the steelers and packers-since 92 when farve and cowher both started, the 2 teams have the highest number of wins in the league, if not top 3 (that stat might have changed over the course of this year)

its not a case of "Favre holding them back". Its that Montana was better than Favre.

And if you put Montana on the Steelers he wins more Super Bowls than Favre would.
Im not going to say Montana wins 15 straight SB's with the Steelers. In 1992 and 1993 Dallas still would have been better. And in 1994 the 49ers still might have been too strong. But I agree about 1995 and 1997 certainly. Not 1998, the Broncos were too strong and the Steelers had a down year. In 2001 certainly and probably 2002 as well.
Montana at his peak would get them past Oakland and TB. 2003 the Patriots were too strong. But id certainly give the Steelers with Montana the nod over the Patriots in 2004.
And this year as well.

So... how many SB's does Montana win for the Cowher Steelers? 1995,1997,2001,2002,2004,2005. 6 Championships

with Favre i dont give them 1995. the 1995 Cowboys trounced the Favre led Packers and that Packer team matched the Steelers.
id give Favre 1997. The Rams picked him off 6 times in 2001 and it took a coaching miracle by Belichick to beat that Ram team which i dont feel the 2001 Steelers were capable of. its arguable, but i dont give him 2001. With Montana I would as he could carry out a mistake free game, or at least not throw 6 INTS..
id give Favre 2002. he could get them past the Titans,Raiders, and Bucs. Not 2003, the Steelers as a team werent strong enough, even with Montana. Id give them last year.
And Favre at his peak could take this years Steelers past the Colts and the rest.
So..thats 1997,2002,2004,2005 for Favre 4 Championships

just for fun...and to stir up everybody.......how about Tom Brady?
i'll give you first shot.
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Old 01-04-2006, 07:14 PM   #52
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Default Re: Brett Favre, the greatest of all-time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3 to be 4
its not a case of "Favre holding them back". Its that Montana was better than Favre.

And if you put Montana on the Steelers he wins more Super Bowls than Favre would.
Im not going to say Montana wins 15 straight SB's with the Steelers. In 1992 and 1993 Dallas still would have been better. And in 1994 the 49ers still might have been too strong. But I agree about 1995 and 1997 certainly. Not 1998, the Broncos were too strong and the Steelers had a down year. In 2001 certainly and probably 2002 as well.
Montana at his peak would get them past Oakland and TB. 2003 the Patriots were too strong. But id certainly give the Steelers with Montana the nod over the Patriots in 2004.
And this year as well.

So... how many SB's does Montana win for the Cowher Steelers? 1995,1997,2001,2002,2004,2005. 6 Championships

with Favre i dont give them 1995. the 1995 Cowboys trounced the Favre led Packers and that Packer team matched the Steelers.
id give Favre 1997. The Rams picked him off 6 times in 2001 and it took a coaching miracle by Belichick to beat that Ram team which i dont feel the 2001 Steelers were capable of. its arguable, but i dont give him 2001. With Montana I would as he could carry out a mistake free game, or at least not throw 6 INTS..
id give Favre 2002. he could get them past the Titans,Raiders, and Bucs. Not 2003, the Steelers as a team werent strong enough, even with Montana. Id give them last year.
And Favre at his peak could take this years Steelers past the Colts and the rest.
So..thats 1997,2002,2004,2005 for Favre 4 Championships

just for fun...and to stir up everybody.......how about Tom Brady?
i'll give you first shot.
well since i get 1st shot....brady doesnt win a champ without belichick, nor does he even get a shot at a starting job! i have thought about this because if you look at the qb drafted right before brady------tee martin by the pittsburgh steelers (in the same round i believe) i wonder who was higher on the patriots board? the national champ winning qb or brady? did they target brady all along or did circumstances land him in their lap? if the steelers didnt draft martin is that who they wouldve taken? i dont know but it is interresting to think about. but then again so is the steelers passing on dan marino. the 80's and 90's coulda been so much different if they didnt pass on the hometown favorite.

(oh and i gotta agree with montanna and the 6 champs w/ the steelers. 14 or 15 is asking alot. hell even bradshaw couldnt win that many with the steel curtain) i would also agree with farve at 4. that says alot about the clubs cowher has put together, infact with a bonafide farve or montana style qb they woulda had a good shot at going undefeated and winning the sb last year. bonehead madox sucked in every game he played in ...even the 2 wins against oakland and the bills

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Old 01-04-2006, 07:35 PM   #53
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Default Re: Brett Favre, the greatest of all-time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tony hipchest
well since i get 1st shot....brady doesnt win a champ without belichick, nor does he even get a shot at a starting job! i have thought about this because if you look at the qb drafted right before brady------tee martin by the pittsburgh steelers (in the same round i believe) i wonder who was higher on the patriots board? the national champ winning qb or brady? did they target brady all along or did circumstances land him in their lap? if the steelers didnt draft martin is that who they wouldve taken? i dont know but it is interresting to think about. but then again so is the steelers passing on dan marino. the 80's and 90's coulda been so much different if they didnt pass on the hometown favorite.

(oh and i gotta agree with montanna and the 6 champs w/ the steelers. 14 or 15 is asking alot. hell even bradshaw couldnt win that many with the steel curtain) i would also agree with farve at 4. that says alot about the clubs cowher has put together, infact with a bonafide farve or montana style qb they woulda had a good shot at going undefeated and winning the sb last year. bonehead madox sucked in every game he played in ...even the 2 wins against oakland and the bills

ok then, so obviously its clear Belichick is much better than Cowher since Brady couldnt win a SB with Cowher.
What in tarnation does it matter what the Patriots thought of Brady in 2000? Its what they think now.
now, to give my two cents on the question you didnt answer seriously.

Brady could have won that SB in 1995.
Brady could have certainly taken the Steelers past the Broncos and Packers in 1997.
Not in 2001. the 2001 Steelers could not have played the defense against the Rams the Patriots did.
Brady could have taken the 2002 Steelers over the top. 2004 and 2005 too.
thats five. the difference is 1995. for some reason Favre didnt ever play well vs that Dallas team. Brady could play the disciplined mistake free style that would have lent itself to the Steelers running game.
Im not saying Brady is better all time than Favre. I have FAvre #8 and Brady #9.
But the matchups of the years favored Brady.

by the way..Brady's career aint over. 5..7...10 more years like this and hes in the top 4 with Montana,Unitas, and Elway.
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Old 01-04-2006, 07:50 PM   #54
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Default Re: Brett Favre, the greatest of all-time?

"What in tarnation does it matter what the Patriots thought of Brady in 2000? Its what they think now."

you dont ever wonder?


anyways brady is easilly better than the likes of odonnell, graham, tomzak, kordell, maddox, and ben as a rookie. that is simple and i would have to agree he wouldve easilly won the sb in 95 and 4 afc games lost at home.

the steelers were the #1 defense in the nfl and the #3 offense in 2001 (oddly enough the rams were #1 o and #3 d) and i think as long as the steelers db's mugged the rams receivers and marshall faulk like the patriots did, they wouldve won that one like the pats did. i dont think the steelers woulda been 14 point underdogs but i bet it woulda been 7-10.

i think we can agree on the fact that cowher isnt quite the "choker" everyone makes him out to be and that behind all of the great coaches stands a great qb. that is why steelerfans are so excited about the prospects of ben being here a long time and developing into what we believe will be the link cowher has been missing.


(feel free to offer some insight on what the pats were looking at in the 6th round of 2000, i still wonder what the steelers woulda done if matt jones and heath miller woulda both been on the board when they drafted last year)

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Old 01-04-2006, 08:07 PM   #55
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Default Re: Brett Favre, the greatest of all-time?

in general, they were looking at the same thing the other 31 teams were. And they were obviously wrong. the story is that they were deciding between Brady and Tim Rattay and that it was the late Dick Reihbein who pushed for Brady. He was drafted as a similar QB to Bledsoe. What they didnt realize was how Brady worked on himself to improve in areas that couldnt be predicted. Hes obsessed with mechanics, with practice, with doing all the little things. Everything Bledsoe had little patience for. Bledsoe did everything that was asked, and little else. Brady would do more. So i give ther credit to Brady for improving himself, and then listening to his coaches.

i could go on and on about Bledsoe, but thats another thread. Just look at the tape just after won SB 36. Brady is through the roof. Bledsoe looks like if they were alone he'd kill Brady. to this day in interviews he calls winning that SB less important than the disappointment in not playing. Gee, what a team player!
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