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Old 12-31-2005, 05:47 PM   #11
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Default Re: ben a pro bowl alternate?

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Originally Posted by Brady12
Lol Suit, I'm sure anyone would trade in a pro bowl for a Lombardi Trophy.
Personally, I'd take either one.
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Old 12-31-2005, 05:47 PM   #12
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Default Re: ben a pro bowl alternate?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CantStop85
You have to play more games to get any pro bowl consideration. Had Ben not missed any games he probably would have been an alternate.

Trent Green has 3,670 yards, 16 TD's, 10 INT's
Drew Brees has 3,508 yards, 24 TD's 15 INT's
Jake Plummer has 3,275 yards, 18 TD's, 7 INT's
Ben has 2,250 yards, 17 TD's, 7 INT's

I don't see how you could vote Ben over any 3 of those guys. We can speculate all we want about how many yards and TD's Ben would have thrown for had he not missed 4 games, but that would be voting more on reputation than anything else. If Ben had played a few more games and gotten around 1,000 more yards passing, then he would have been an alternate...thing is, he didn't.
tell that to the people who voted in m. vick or j. ogden. larry johnson made it didnt he? did he play a full season as the starter? lts see:

16-10
18-7 or
17-7 in 4.75 fewer games (im not sure if plummer or green have rushed for any td's but ben has)

you sound like someone who would rather hate on ben than put the best qb's on the squad. or do you think j. mccown and k. warner should be there just because they throw for 300 yds/game every game? theres more to being a pro bowler (and winner) than yards thrown.
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Old 12-31-2005, 05:53 PM   #13
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Default Re: ben a pro bowl alternate?

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Originally Posted by tony hipchest
tell that to the people who voted in m. vick or j. ogden. larry johnson made it didnt he? did he play a full season as the starter? lts see:

16-10
18-7 or
17-7 in 4.75 fewer games (im not sure if plummer or green have rushed for any td's but ben has)

you sound like someone who would rather hate on ben than put the best qb's on the squad. or do you think j. mccown and k. warner should be there just because they throw for 300 yds/game every game? theres more to being a pro bowler (and winner) than yards thrown.
I'm not saying that I agree with the voting in of Vick or Ogden because I don't. However, I do agree with the nomination for Larry Johnson...he may not have been a starter for the whole season, but he put up better stats than most of the backs who had played the entire season. To me, this is even more reason to vote for him.

I wouldn't vote in Ben because everyone ahead of him has better stats than him. Sure he has a killer QB rating, but he played in 4 less games than everyone else and has 1,000 less yards than everyone else. You can't say for sure how he might have performed over that 4 game stretch.
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Old 12-31-2005, 06:04 PM   #14
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Default Re: ben a pro bowl alternate?

Michael vick was voted in spite of experience... We can relate that to Eli Manning too, I believe he should've been in there over Vick. This can relate to the alternate position we are talking about with Ben too. BTW Vick is the most exciting player in the game at QB, so why not? I didn't vote for him either :D
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Old 12-31-2005, 06:13 PM   #15
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Default Re: ben a pro bowl alternate?

Ben could be if he played more games.
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Old 12-31-2005, 06:21 PM   #16
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Default Re: ben a pro bowl alternate?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CantStop85
I'm not saying that I agree with the voting in of Vick or Ogden because I don't. However, I do agree with the nomination for Larry Johnson...he may not have been a starter for the whole season, but he put up better stats than most of the backs who had played the entire season. To me, this is even more reason to vote for him.

I wouldn't vote in Ben because everyone ahead of him has better stats than him. Sure he has a killer QB rating, but he played in 4 less games than everyone else and has 1,000 less yards than everyone else. You can't say for sure how he might have performed over that 4 game stretch.
so youre telling me 16 td and 10 1nt is better than 17 td and 7 int just because trent green threw for 3600 yds? youre telling me just cause ben didnt start 4 games that if he did he wouldve thrown for 0 yds? i very conservatively have given ben 200 ypg in the 4.75 games he hasnt played in my extrapolations.

really though, how much better is plummers 18 tds and 7 int's than bens numbers? i see what you are trying to say but the simple math doesnt add up. sure you might have an argument for d. brees and his 24 tds in 16 games but looking at his injury today he might not even be available as an alternate. fact is ben is better than drew.

all this is a moot point cause we are only talking about the pro bowl. however if were looking at hall of fame careers ben is way ahead of the 3 aformentionned and will probably be named as a pro bowl alternate anyways (which i think helps his hall of fame bid)
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Old 12-31-2005, 06:40 PM   #17
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Default Re: ben a pro bowl alternate?

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Originally Posted by tony hipchest
so youre telling me 16 td and 10 1nt is better than 17 td and 7 int just because trent green threw for 3600 yds? youre telling me just cause ben didnt start 4 games that if he did he wouldve thrown for 0 yds? i very conservatively have given ben 200 ypg in the 4.75 games he hasnt played in my extrapolations.

really though, how much better is plummers 18 tds and 7 int's than bens numbers? i see what you are trying to say but the simple math doesnt add up. sure you might have an argument for d. brees and his 24 tds in 16 games but looking at his injury today he might not even be available as an alternate. fact is ben is better than drew.

all this is a moot point cause we are only talking about the pro bowl. however if were looking at hall of fame careers ben is way ahead of the 3 aformentionned and will probably be named as a pro bowl alternate anyways (which i think helps his hall of fame bid)

Uhhh, Ben has thrown 17 TD, Plummer 18... Theres the difference :D

I also think you are Biased, How can Big Ben be better than those 3 QB's in his 2nd year?
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Old 12-31-2005, 06:44 PM   #18
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Default Re: ben a pro bowl alternate?

I hope Ben is Tom Brady and get the ring. lol
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Old 12-31-2005, 06:49 PM   #19
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Default Re: ben a pro bowl alternate?

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Originally Posted by Brady12
Uhhh, Ben has thrown 17 TD, Plummer 18... Theres the difference :D

I also think you are Biased, How can Big Ben be better than those 3 QB's in his 2nd year?
well since this conversation has turned into all about numbers (primarily passing yards which ignores alot of other important numbers) why dont you compare bens numbers through 2 years vs. that of trent green, j. plummer, or d. brees through their 1st 2 years. now lets talk about games won. as i have previously stated ben has led his team to more playoff victories than all above combined. while he sucked last year vs. the jets he did lead the game tying/winning drive and has 20+ wins in his 1st 2 years. these facts cannot be disputed because they are facts. talk about bens running game all you want but be sure to look at l.t., p. holmes/l. johnson, and the legendary denver running game before you do so.

so is it me who is biased? the points i have made have shown i am extremely objective.
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Old 12-31-2005, 07:01 PM   #20
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Default Re: ben a pro bowl alternate?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tony hipchest
so youre telling me 16 td and 10 1nt is better than 17 td and 7 int just because trent green threw for 3600 yds? youre telling me just cause ben didnt start 4 games that if he did he wouldve thrown for 0 yds? i very conservatively have given ben 200 ypg in the 4.75 games he hasnt played in my extrapolations.

really though, how much better is plummers 18 tds and 7 int's than bens numbers? i see what you are trying to say but the simple math doesnt add up. sure you might have an argument for d. brees and his 24 tds in 16 games but looking at his injury today he might not even be available as an alternate. fact is ben is better than drew.

all this is a moot point cause we are only talking about the pro bowl. however if were looking at hall of fame careers ben is way ahead of the 3 aformentionned and will probably be named as a pro bowl alternate anyways (which i think helps his hall of fame bid)
I'm not saying necessarily that Ben didn't deserve to be a pro bowl alternate...I'm just telling you why he didn't get voted in. Four games is a big portion of the season when the final ballots are cast. If you ignore games played and just go straight off of stats, most of the alternates had slightly better TD/Int numbers and overwhelmingly better yardage (around 1,000 more). The point is that in order to argue Ben over the other alternates, you would have to assume how he would perform in the 4 games he missed. You can't do that...for all we know he might have thrown 10 Int's and 1 TD in that stretch. I know Ben was efficient while he was playing and I also know that yardage and TD's aren't everything but when you have 4 QB's all with similar stats except one that threw for 1,000 yards less than everyone else, who do you think is going to be the odd man out?
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