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Old 03-11-2009, 03:50 PM   #1
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Default Even the communists know free-markets better than this administration

So let's get this straight. They have cut taxes on automobiles, and then provided a stimulus. . . to the businesses to CUT their prices so that more people can buy the cars.

Hmm. No govt. involvement beyond that. No govt. "Creating" jobs.

Just cutting taxes and helping the companies cut prices.

Wow... and look, even GM is doing decent over there.

Really is a shame when the communists know free markets better than this administration.

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March 10 (Bloomberg) -- China vehicle sales surged 25 percent in February, the first gain in four months, after the government cut taxes on some models, helping the country extend its lead as the world’s largest auto market this year.
Sales of passenger cars, buses and trucks climbed to 827,600, the China Association of Automobile Manufacturers said today in Beijing. The tally in the first two months rose 2.7 percent to 1.56 million, compared with a 39 percent decline to 1.35 million in the U.S.
China has halved retail taxes on small cars and drawn up plans to give out vehicle subsidies in rural areas to revive demand after auto sales rose at the slowest pace in a decade last year. Combined with the country’s wider 4 trillion yuan ($585 billion) economic stimulus package, the policies have caused General Motors Corp. to roughly double its forecast for China’s nationwide auto market growth this year.
“Consumers are regaining confidence because of the government’s stimulus policies,” said Ricon Xia, an analyst at Daiwa Research Institute in Shanghai. “Still, vehicle sales may fluctuate in the coming months.”
Sales this month will likely be better than in February, Xiong Chuanlin, vice secretary-general of the automakers group, told reporters in Beijing today. The body is “cautiously optimistic” about full-year sales, he added.
Snow, New Year
The February sales jump, the biggest in 18 months, was also helped by an earlier Lunar New Year holiday. The weeklong break was in January this year compared with February last year. Snowstorms across much of China also disrupted the market in 2008.
Passenger-car sales, including sport-utility and multipurpose vehicles, rose 24 percent last month to 607,300, the association said. In the first two months, the tally climbed 5.8 percent to 1.22 million.
Sales of cars with engines or 1.6 liters or less jumped 19 percent in the first two months. Their market share gained by 7.71 percentage points.
Rising sales and production cuts by automakers has caused the nation’s stockpile of unsold vehicles to fall to the lowest in two years last month, the grouping said.
Commercial-vehicle sales fell 6.9 percent in first two months as the sector received less government support than passenger cars, the group said. Truckmakers are now seeking similar stimulus plans, it added.
GM Forecast
GM, the biggest overseas automaker in China, raised its forecast for the nation’s market growth this year to a range of between 5 percent and 10 percent from an earlier prediction of less than 3 percent, GM Asia-Pacific President Nick Reilly, said last week.
India, the world’s second-most populous nation, also had an increase in February auto sales, the first gain in five months, as emerging markets avoid the world of the global recession.
By contrast, GM is shuttering plants in the U.S. and seeking a government bailout on tumbling demand. GM’s domestic sales collapsed 51 percent in the first two months as the industrywide sales rate dropped to the lowest level since 1981 amid the recession.
In China, the government halved sales taxes on cars with engines of 1.6 liters or less starting from Jan. 20. It’s also providing 5 billion yuan in subsidies to spur auto sales in rural areas. That has particularly benefited GM’s SAIC-GM-Wuling Automobile Co. venture, the largest minivan-maker in China, Reilly said. The carmaker expects its own China sales growth to outperform the market by as much as 3 percentage points this year, he added.
Volkswagen AG, the second biggest automaker in China, said last month that it plans to double local sales by adding at least four new models a year until 2018. The carmaker sold 1.02 million vehicles in China last year.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...DYY&refer=home
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Old 03-11-2009, 04:08 PM   #2
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Default Re: Even the communists know free-markets better than this administration

I refuse to believe this Preacher, you must be making it up, there is no way that Tax Cuts could help he Economy, no way!

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Old 03-11-2009, 05:07 PM   #3
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Default Re: Even the communists know free-markets better than this administration

The only way out of this is to spend money you don't have and tax the chit out of people.
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Old 03-11-2009, 06:42 PM   #4
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Default Re: Even the communists know free-markets better than this administration

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Originally Posted by Preacher View Post
So let's get this straight. They have cut taxes on automobiles, and then provided a stimulus. . . to the businesses to CUT their prices so that more people can buy the cars.

Hmm. No govt. involvement beyond that. No govt. "Creating" jobs.

Just cutting taxes and helping the companies cut prices.

Wow... and look, even GM is doing decent over there.

Really is a shame when the communists know free markets better than this administration.



http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...DYY&refer=home
A communist government regulates an industry by fluctuating the taxation on separate businesses to prevent a monopoly, or an industry from going under. These are industry tax breaks, (not to be confused with income tax breaks). Don't automatically attribute "tax cuts" to a free market. If we were both selling hot dogs and people were buying more of my hot dogs, then China would give you a tax break to even things out. That's a very extreme version of "fair trade".
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Old 03-11-2009, 06:50 PM   #5
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Default Re: Even the communists know free-markets better than this administration

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A communist government regulates an industry by fluctuating the taxation on separate businesses to prevent a monopoly, or an industry from going under. These are industry tax breaks, (not to be confused with income tax breaks). Don't automatically attribute "tax cuts" to a free market. If we were both selling hot dogs and people were buying more of my hot dogs, then China would give you a tax break to even things out. That's a very extreme version of "fair trade".
Nice text book answer, but that doesn't work in the case of China, which has introduced "free trade zones" and has accomplished what the USSR could not, a mix of free market/communist ideas.

Yet, the fact of the matter is that China has realized that by allowing autos to sell cheaper, they will spark their economy. They are doing that by giving the companies money to cut the prices.

It is not the GOVT. which is trying to create the jobs, it is the govt. which is allowing companies to create jobs.

THAT is the vast difference between our two countries right now. Communist china is trusting companies to create jobs. Capitalist America is depending on the govt. to create jobs.

Do you see a problem with that?
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Old 03-11-2009, 07:19 PM   #6
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Default Re: Even the communists know free-markets better than this administration

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Nice text book answer, but that doesn't work in the case of China, which has introduced "free trade zones" and has accomplished what the USSR could not, a mix of free market/communist ideas.

Yet, the fact of the matter is that China has realized that by allowing autos to sell cheaper, they will spark their economy. They are doing that by giving the companies money to cut the prices.

It is not the GOVT. which is trying to create the jobs, it is the govt. which is allowing companies to create jobs.

THAT is the vast difference between our two countries right now. Communist china is trusting companies to create jobs. Capitalist America is depending on the govt. to create jobs.

Do you see a problem with that?
We've given the automakers trillions of dollars to keep them afloat. The U.S. Government has been more than accommodating. Ford and GM aren't failing because of stifling taxes. They're failing because they have largely outgrown the demand for automobiles in this country. Foreign Auto companies are selling better cars for less and the American Auto companies just can't compete. Bailing out the automakers is the most socialist thing this country has ever done. And we're forced to do it because, both democrats and republicans agree, if the automakers go down then the economy falls off a precipice.

The difference between Capitalist America and Communist china is that their auto companies are making money and ours aren't, and no amount of tax breaks will solve that.
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Old 03-11-2009, 07:22 PM   #7
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Default Re: Even the communists know free-markets better than this administration

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The difference between Capitalist America and Communist china is that their auto companies are making money and ours aren't, and no amount of tax breaks will solve that.
And the Chinese Automakers don't have to pay for Unions. And don't have to follow any environmental standards what so ever.

Lets go swim in the Yangtze River!
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Old 03-11-2009, 07:36 PM   #8
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And the Chinese Automakers don't have to pay for Unions. And don't have to follow any environmental standards what so ever.

Lets go swim in the Yangtze River!
That's very true.
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Old 03-11-2009, 07:41 PM   #9
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Default Re: Even the communists know free-markets better than this administration

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We've given the automakers trillions of dollars to keep them afloat. The U.S. Government has been more than accommodating. Ford and GM aren't failing because of stifling taxes. They're failing because they have largely outgrown the demand for automobiles in this country. Foreign Auto companies are selling better cars for less and the American Auto companies just can't compete. Bailing out the automakers is the most socialist thing this country has ever done. And we're forced to do it because, both democrats and republicans agree, if the automakers go down then the economy falls off a precipice.

The difference between Capitalist America and Communist china is that their auto companies are making money and ours aren't, and no amount of tax breaks will solve that.
You are right about the automakers.

My point was more general to the fact that here in America, the govt. is trying to create jobs via stimulus. All these "shovel ready" jobs are nothing more than pork.

To really help the economy, you cut taxes on the top 50 percent, the ones who STILL have money to spend, so that they go and spend their money. When they do, businesses will have to employ more people, which means more work for middle and lower class.

You cut taxes on gas, so more people can save a few dollars, instead of RAISING taxes on gas, especially like California is planning on doing.

You cut taxes on business, instead of installing a cap and trade system which will be passed on to the consumer in what amounts to a consumption tax on top of income tax.

Instead, our govt. is raising taxes in order to bring in more money, so that they can look like hero's and dole it out to others.

The former looks bad, but works in the long run. THe latter looks good, but creates an unsustainable system in the long run.


BTW... when I said "Nice text book answer" I realize that could have come across ugly. What I meant was, in theory, you are exactly right. However, it has worked out differently in China.

Sorry for putting it the way I did.
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Old 03-11-2009, 08:36 PM   #10
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You are right about the automakers.

My point was more general to the fact that here in America, the govt. is trying to create jobs via stimulus. All these "shovel ready" jobs are nothing more than pork.

To really help the economy, you cut taxes on the top 50 percent, the ones who STILL have money to spend, so that they go and spend their money. When they do, businesses will have to employ more people, which means more work for middle and lower class.

You cut taxes on gas, so more people can save a few dollars, instead of RAISING taxes on gas, especially like California is planning on doing.

You cut taxes on business, instead of installing a cap and trade system which will be passed on to the consumer in what amounts to a consumption tax on top of income tax.

Instead, our govt. is raising taxes in order to bring in more money, so that they can look like hero's and dole it out to others.

The former looks bad, but works in the long run. THe latter looks good, but creates an unsustainable system in the long run.
There I have to disagree. Cutting taxes absolutely looks good. I would love to keep more of my money. Raising taxes and spending looks scary. I support Obama but even I'm getting cold feet. I was actually in DC this weekend and I was able to listen to a political analyst, who apparently interviewed Obama and McCain during the election. He said that Obama is the first president he has seen embrace a 2 trillion dollar deficit, and that it's a big gamble but if Obama succeeds then he'll be seen as a hero and the Republican Party will be on the run. But if he fails, Romney will be president in four years (He said that quite certainly). He does trust Obama though, but says that, contrary to public perception, Obama's more of a politician than jesus christ. Good news for you, Obama is very reasonable and is definitively not a ideologue. His "adopted Bush policy" on Iraq best illustrates his ability to be swayed with reasoning.

Personally, I still like him. I voted for Obama to invest in new industry, and I'll give him four years to do so.
Quote:
BTW... when I said "Nice text book answer" I realize that could have come across ugly. What I meant was, in theory, you are exactly right. However, it has worked out differently in China.

Sorry for putting it the way I did.
(lol) Don't worry about it. This is politics. I expect nothing less.
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