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Old 03-17-2009, 08:09 PM   #1
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Default James Walker's AFC North Blog

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/afcnorth

Steelers section of ESPN's AFC North blog.

Derick Young from Casper WY writes: James, I am seeing a lot of questioning and wanting of Steelers Nation about our RB situation and the drafting need of an ILB. I have no idea why our RBs as is are not good enough? I see them as great. Also, an ILB can wait until next years draft. We need A. Mack and OT/DL in this years draft. Would you agree or something else for Pittsburgh would better suit?

James Walker: Good questions, Derrick. My theory is that Steeler Nation is so accustomed to having a 1,300-yard rusher on the roster every season, that not having one last year created an unusual sense of panic. But this league has changed so much that two-tailback systems are becoming the norm. What's the difference if Willie Parker gets 800 rushing yards and Rashard Mendenhall gets 500 yards in relief next year? It's still 1,300 yards, and I believe Pittsburgh is heading in that direction next season. I do expect the Steelers to draft a linebacker at some point next month but not on the first day. Rarely will a draft go by where a 3-4 team doesn't take at least a flier on a linebacker.

Jenn from Ohio writes: Who is going to replace McFadden for the Steelers? I'm sad to see him go. Are there any moves in the Steelers future besides the draft?

James Walker: Thanks for checking in, Jenn. The Steelers are counting on William Gay to step up and start next season. He showed flashes during the second half of last season. If Gay isn't ready, Pittsburgh can fall back on the wily veteran Deshea Townsend. I should have more on Gay later in the week as Pittsburgh begins its offseason workout program.

***** Also a delusional Brownstain claims that they are better fans than the Steelers.

Posted by ESPN.com's James Walker

We get a lot of comments, jokes and opinions in our AFC North inbox.

For instance, here is one person's view of Pittsburgh Steelers fans:

Tom from Brooklyn NY writes: Hi James love the blog. I was just wondering why every steeler fan that writes you a comment feels the need to say they are a fan for life? Do they need to keep the front up? I mean everyone knows the Browns have the better, more loyal fans. Just look how everyone in pittsburgh forgot about the pirates.

First, notice the lower casing of the words "Steeler," "Pittsburgh" and "Pirates." Yet the word "Browns" is properly capitalized by Tom. I'm sure that's no coincidence.

But beyond the intentional jabs, does Tom bring up a good point with Steelers and Browns fans?

In fairness to both sides, here are some rebuttals from Steeler Nation:


Mike from Center, PA writes: Mr. Walker, I just thought that I should comment, in defense of my people, on Brooklyn Tom's comments. First off, we are the exact opposite of fair-weather fans in Pittsburgh. Second, nobody has forgotten about the Pirates. Everywhere you go you will see "P" hats as our way of showing now only where we are from, but our undying loyalty towards our teams. Just to top it off.. Go Pens! Go Panthers!

Antonio from Albuquerque NM writes: tom from Brooklyn (notice tom is in lower case) needs to give it up like every other brwn fan, (notice the team's entire name isn't worth writing) and stop throwing jabs at the fans until his 'team' actually proves they can be a legitimate competitor like the Pittsburgh Steelers. Those worthless group of wannabe puppies talk trash every offseason until about week 5 when they realize their season is down the toilet yet again. Speaking of, the toilet is the only bowl something brwn can actually reach!! Give it up until you prove something.

Reader from Blacksburg, VA writes: Mr. Walker, awesome blog I check up on it everyday. In response to the disgruntled browns fan, any other team that would pile on 16 straight losing seasons would move to another city because of such poor attendance and income. Pirates have stayed in Pittsburgh solely because there still are enough people that care about Pittsburgh Baseball. Also, I haven't checked recently...but when was the last time cleveland won anything at all? thank you, Super Bowl Champs

Rick from Wooster, OH writes: Hey James, good to have you back. The letter from the Browns fan saying they have better fans then Steelers is idiotic. I live in Ohio and have seen Browns fans up close for the last 7 years. They are major frontrunners, don't let them fool you. While watching a game this year, I think it was week 6 or 7, a commercial came up saying that "good season tickets are still available for Browns games this year". I have been on the Steelers waiting list for season tickets for 10 years, but if I wanted Browns season tickets I could just walk-up and get them. Steelers have best fans hands down, Brownies are not even in discussion until they at least sell all their tickets.

Tim from Philly writes: To answer the Brown's fan question: anyone familiar to the Pittsburgh BB situation realizes there's a difference between supporting a crappy organization (aka Browns) as compared to not supporting an organization that's just trying to make money off their fans and don't care about fielding a legit team.

Dan Finnegan from Bremerton, WA writes: James, You can let the Clowns fans know that Steeler fans are born, not bred. And yes, we care just as much about the Pirates as we do the Steelers, but the Pirates organization has failed the fans for the past 16 years, so we're waiting to see some competence from the organization before we start hyping them on any online discussion boards.

Ray from Pittsburgh writes: Hi JW, wanted to give one man's take on Tom from Brooklyn's comment. It's absolutely correct that Steeler fans wear their colors on their sleeve; that's a little something called pride. As a Pittsburgh lifer and die-hard fan, I recognize that Pittsburgh doesn't have the beaches or the beautiful climate or other amenities that a lot of NFL cities have (although I'm not sure you could put Cleve in that category either). Fact is, here's what we have....six Super Bowls, who knows how many division championships, and a pedigree of hall-of-famers both from Pittsburgh & that have played for Pittsburgh that is unmatched anywhere. And I'm OK with that. This is our thing and this is what we have to be proud of. If the Browns had anything to be proud of in the past 20, 30, even 40 years, I'd expect their fans would be every bit as proud given their level of energy & enthusiasm.

Matt writes: As to the Browns/Steelers fans point you recently made, I am a Steelers fan who lived in Cleveland for four and a half years. The Browns have a dedicated base of fans on game days, but other than that, the passion for their team is just not there. Also, there are at least five Steelers bars in Cleveland that I know off the top of my head. The Browns fans may be passionate (one day a week), but the city certainly isn't. And yes, the Pirates fandom has disappeared... but they haven't had a good team since 1991. I think every team in pro sports has had a winning season since then except them. The Browns, for example, have made the playoffs at least twice.

Cleveland Browns, Pittsburgh Steelers, AFC North

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Old 03-17-2009, 08:24 PM   #2
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Default Re: James Walker's AFC North Blog

.... Okay, I have determined that Tom from Brooklyn is a loser. 'nough said.
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Old 03-18-2009, 08:52 AM   #3
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Default Re: James Walker's AFC North Blog

Tom is a douchebag toolbox. There are TONS of Steelers fans in Cleveland, and we proudly walk amongst the Browns fans. How many Browns fans are there in Pittsburgh? Browns bars?

(Oh, and this guy is WAY off on the amount of Steelers bars in Cleveland...there are at least 20 in Akron alone, so probably about 75 in Cleveland).
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Old 03-18-2009, 09:14 AM   #4
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Default Re: James Walker's AFC North Blog

What people forget is that cleveland use to fill Muni Stadium with about 2,000 people on average for an indians game for 40 years until the mid 90s when they started winning. Check the attenance to cav games 4 or 5 years ago... pre-Lebron years.
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Old 03-18-2009, 09:20 AM   #5
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Default Re: James Walker's AFC North Blog

I used to GO to the Indians games at Muni. It was so cavernous and empty one person's voice would carry throughout the whole stadium (which made 10 cent beer night interesting to say the least).

Here's a story about it (obviously before my time but still interesting)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel_Beer_Night

Ten Cent Beer Night was an ill-fated promotion held by the American League's Cleveland Indians during a game against the Texas Rangers at Cleveland Municipal Stadium on June 4, 1974.

The idea behind the promotion was to offer as many eight-ounce (237 mL) cups of Stroh's beer as the fans could drink for just 10 apiece, thus increasing ticket sales. Ultimately, the game was forfeited to Texas on the orders of home plate umpire Nestor Chylak because of the crowd's uncontrollable rowdiness, and because the game could not be resumed in a timely manner.


Background
The game had a special significance for both teams, as there had been a bench-clearing brawl in a Rangers/Indians game one week earlier at Arlington Stadium in Texas, during a "cheap beer night" there.[1]

In Texas, the trouble had started in the bottom of the fourth inning with a walk to the Rangers' Tom Grieve, followed by a Lenny Randle single. The next batter hit a double play ball to Indians third baseman John Lowenstein; he stepped on the third base bag to retire Grieve and threw the ball to second base, but Randle disrupted the play with a hard slide into second baseman Jack Brohamer.

The Indians retaliated in the bottom of the eighth when pitcher Milt Wilcox threw behind Randle's head. Randle eventually laid down a bunt. When Wilcox attempted to field it and tag Randle out, Randle hit him with a forearm. Indians first baseman John Ellis responded by punching Randle, and both benches emptied for a brawl. During the melee, the intoxicated crowd became rowdy and threw beer on the Indians' players.

Six days later, the Ten Cent Beer Night promotion induced 25,134 fans to come to Municipal Stadium for the Rangers/Indians game. The past season's average attendance had been 8,000.


[edit] The game
Early in the game, the Rangers took a 5-1 lead. Meanwhile, throughout the contest, the crowd in attendance (which was already heavily inebriated) continually misbehaved. A woman ran out to the Indians' on-deck circle and flashed her breasts, and a naked man sprinted to second base as Grieve hit his second home run of the game. A father and son pair ran onto the outfield and mooned the fans in the bleachers one inning later.[2] The ugliness escalated when Cleveland's Leron Lee hit a line drive into the stomach of Rangers pitcher Ferguson Jenkins, after which Jenkins dropped to the ground. The fans in the upper deck of Municipal Stadium cheered, then chanted "Hit 'em again! Hit 'em again! Harder! Harder!"

As the game progressed, more fans ran onto the field and caused problems. Ranger Mike Hargrove (who would manage the Indians and lead them to the World Series 21 years later) was pelted with hot dogs and spit, and at one point was nearly struck with an empty gallon jug of Thunderbird.

The Rangers later argued a call in which Lee was called safe in a close play at third base, spiking Jenkins with his cleats in the process and forcing him to leave the game. The Rangers' angry response to this call enraged Cleveland fans, who again began throwing objects onto the field.

In the bottom of the ninth, the Indians managed to rally and tie the game at five runs apiece, but with a crowd that had been consuming as much alcohol as it could for nine innings, the situation finally boiled over.


[edit] The riot
In the ninth inning, a fan attempted to steal Texas outfielder Jeff Burroughs' cap. Confronting the fan, Burroughs tripped, and Texas manager Billy Martin (thinking that Burroughs had been attacked) charged onto the field, his players right behind, some wielding bats.[3] A large number of intoxicated fans – some armed with knives, chains, and portions of stadium seats that they had torn apart – surged onto the field, and others hurled bottles from the stands. Realizing that the Rangers' lives might be in danger, Ken Aspromonte, the Indians' manager, ordered his players to grab bats and help the Rangers. Rioters began throwing steel folding chairs, and Cleveland relief pitcher Tom Hilgendorf was hit in the head by one of them. Hargrove, involved in a fistfight with a rioter, had to fight another on his way back to the Texas dugout.

Among the Indians players suddenly running for his life was Rusty Torres, who was on second base at the time, representing the winning run. In his career, Torres wound up seeing three big-league baseball riots close up; he was with the New York Yankees at the Senators' final game in Washington in 1971 and the Chicago White Sox during the infamous Disco Demolition Night in 1979.

The bases were pulled up and stolen (never to be returned) and many rioters threw a vast array of objects including cups, rocks, bottles, batteries from radios, hot dogs, popcorn containers, and folding chairs. As a result, umpire crew chief Nestor Chylak, realizing that order would not be restored in a timely fashion, forfeited the game to Texas. He too was a victim of the rioters as one struck him with part of a stadium seat, cutting his head.[4] His hand was also cut by a thrown rock.

As Joe Tait and Herb Score called the riot live on radio, Score mentioned the lack of police protection; a riot squad from the Cleveland police department finally arrived to restore order.

Later that season, the team's promotion of three additional beer nights were changed from unlimited amounts to a limit of four cups per person. American League president Lee McPhail commented, "There was no question that beer played a part in the riot."[4]
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Old 03-18-2009, 09:36 AM   #6
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Default Re: James Walker's AFC North Blog

Nice 2 read the fans smacking that poor fella from Brooklyn.

BTW, what would you guys call the Steelers fans who are from overseas? They're not like the American fans who has the tradition thing going on from generation to generation. So they are not born, they aren't bred. What are they?
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Old 03-18-2009, 10:24 AM   #7
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Old 03-18-2009, 07:29 PM   #8
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Brownstain responses - mesa

Thought of the day III

March 18, 2009 10:30 AM

Posted by ESPN.com's James Walker

I really didn't plan on making this a daily thread.

But what started two days ago by Tom in Brooklyn, who questioned the loyalty of Pittsburgh Steelers fans, has developed into something bigger.

Now Cleveland Browns fans and even Baltimore Ravens fans are filling up the AFC North inbox to chime in on the topic.

Enjoy.

Rusty from Canal Fulton, Ohio writes: My message is in response to the rebuttals by the Steelers fans. I believe that it is easy to cheer for your team and sell out the stadium when you are consistently winning games. It takes dedicated fans to sell out games when you are putting a losing team on the field. There is no doubt that Browns fans are dedicated to our team. And their aren't front-running Browns fans, they are now front-running Steelers fans. Taking a look at the Forbes list of team values for the NFL I find that the Browns are in the number 9 spot. The Steelers on the other hand are at 16. Take into account that the Browns have the second lowest average ticket price too.

Dave from Baltimore writes: James, I get tired of Steelers fans talking about how they are the best and most loyal fans. It's easy to be loyal when your team is the most successful in the history of the league. Don't pretend that the six super bowl rings don't have something to do with the fact that they have so many fans in every city. It's not a reflection on the fans. It's a reflection on the team. Just like the Cowboys. Those Cleveland fans that remain have a right to be proud of their loyalty during these times when its hard to be proud of their team. Ditto for those di-hard Bills fans. I once went to a Ravens-Bills game and in the line at the entrance their were a bunch of Buffalo fans doing that stupid B-U-F-F-A-L-O chant. They didn't have a chance in that game, but there they were hundreds of miles from Buffalo in all of their gear with all of their optimism and enthusiasm. That's a credit to those fans. I'm guessing the Pirates don't enjoy the same support as the Steelers do when they go on the road.

Austin from Charleston, SC writes: On the subject of fan loyalty, it's very easy for the steelers to have a lot of fans. They are a very well run organization, that is in playoff contention every year. Actual loyalty is something that the Ravens, browns, and bengals have, because their fans stick around even when times are bad. If steelers fans ever have to face consecutive losing seasons, you can count on "steeler nation" disappearing.

Adam from Mentor writes: Love the blog James. The thing to keep in perspective when looking at Brown's fans is we have not had a winning team in what seems like forever. However, we still sell out every season for home games (Check the facts Rick from Wooster) and still have the passion of a team that is superbowl bound. We support our team through thick and thin, mostly thin as of late. Dont forget we have the biggest fan club in the country. I moved to Denver for a year, found a browns backers bar and went not knowing what to expect. I found the bar full, packed with 90 screaming fans wearing the brown and orange. We may not have the rings, but we have more loyalty of any fanbase in sports. Even more so then the stealers (notice the misspelling). I have seen more frontrunning steelers fans than any team. They won a couple of superbowls recently, and the number of people wearing jerseys triples. Coincidence? This is the Dawg Pound, we dont have the luxury of having years past to boost our fanhood, we only have the love for the Browns!

Fionn from Wilmington writes: To Brooklyn Tom and those steelers fans, Unfortunately, we have to deal with the worst aspect of sports: bandwagoning. Even if your browns won the Super Bowl, the amount of fans talking trash online and everywhere else would double or triple. One thing I hate is bandwagoners and alot of the steelers/cowboys fans nowadays would qualify as bandwagoners in my book because of their history. Also, I include people that don't follow sports until they are in/won the championship; in my opinion that is bandwagonging also. Now I am all about making history, thus the reason why I started following the Baltimore Ravens when they moved to Baltimore(No affiliation to the former browns). Also, I'm hoping we can tie the steelers with 2 Super Bowl wins in the Baltimore Ravens Era.

Mark from Bangor, PA writes: Hey James, I really think the only difference between Steelers and Browns fans is winning. Browns fans are angrier because we haven't won anything since before I was born. Both fans are equally obnoxious when their "fandom" is questioned.

Joe from Akron writes: James, I enjoy your work. ESPN was smart to put a guy like you who has spent some time in AFC North Country in charge of this blog. In regards to steeler "fan loyalty" and the rebuttals, just watch. Once the Browns establish themselves as a competent outfit under Mangini and company, all the bandwagon steeler fans in north east ohio will go back in their closets and pull out their Kosar jerseys again. In Akron, I grew up with a lot of bandwagon steeler fans. These people had no ties to pittsburgh; just liked riding the black and gold bandwagon. Make no mistake about it, the steeler fan base is as fairweather and casual as the Yankees and Lakers. Don't let their cutesy mid market "blue collar" characterization fool you. And James, please tell these "steeler fans" to stop traveling down the turnpike where they come to "The Q" and cheer on Lebron and the Cavs. If these people "hate Cleveland" so much they need not root for our basketball team. I guess they just can't help it, it's in their fairweather bandwagon nature. Since Rooney was just named the Ambassador to Ireland, maybe "steelers fans" can adopt some Irish winning teams as well.

Matt from Philadelphia, PA writes: As a Browns fan I am somewhat angered at these responses. I have great amount of respect and hatred towards Steelers and Ravens but to say that the Browns fans don't have a strong fan base is ridiculous. We have had 10 horrible years yes, but the fact that there is so much support in the city for a team that has been subpar says something. I have seen home games in other stadiums when the team is 3-4 and the stadium is half empty. I NEVER see that in Cleveland. It says something when we have a superstar like LeBron James guiding us to a potential FINALS showing and the Clevelanders are more worried about Joe Jurevicius being released. Mr. Walker, I'm not sure if you even read the responses to these blogs, but to even suggest that EITHER set of fans are not loyal I think is ridiculous (and you know I write you regularly and love your updates to the AFC North). I have heard horror stories of what happens to Steelers fans who walk into Cleveland Browns stadium and Browns fans who walk into Heinz field. Bottom line is this: Steelers and Browns fans are loyal and have backers all around the world.

(Editor's note: Tom in Brooklyn questioned the loyalty of Pittsburgh fans, Matt. Here was his initial post that started this thread is linked at the top.)
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Old 03-18-2009, 07:38 PM   #9
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Default Re: James Walker's AFC North Blog

Quote:
Originally Posted by mesaSteeler View Post
I mean everyone knows the Browns have the better, more loyal fans.
Now actually think about what this individual is saying, without actually stepping into "that" labyrinth. Seriously, to be a stains "fan" you'd need to be delusionally "loyal" "Better"? Hardly. "Loyal"? Yes. It's the only rational explanation.
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Old 03-18-2009, 08:33 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mesaSteeler View Post
...Joe from Akron writes: James, I enjoy your work. ESPN was smart to put a guy like you who has spent some time in AFC North Country in charge of this blog. In regards to steeler "fan loyalty" and the rebuttals, just watch. Once the Browns establish themselves as a competent outfit under Mangini and company, all the bandwagon steeler fans in north east ohio will go back in their closets and pull out their Kosar jerseys again. In Akron, I grew up with a lot of bandwagon steeler fans. These people had no ties to pittsburgh; just liked riding the black and gold bandwagon. Make no mistake about it, the steeler fan base is as fairweather and casual as the Yankees and Lakers. Don't let their cutesy mid market "blue collar" characterization fool you. And James, please tell these "steeler fans" to stop traveling down the turnpike where they come to "The Q" and cheer on Lebron and the Cavs. If these people "hate Cleveland" so much they need not root for our basketball team. I guess they just can't help it, it's in their fairweather bandwagon nature. Since Rooney was just named the Ambassador to Ireland, maybe "steelers fans" can adopt some Irish winning teams as well...
1 of the people who can't stand anything that has 2 do with Cleveland would B me. I don't care how good LeBron or his Cavaliers, or that baseball team with an Indian head logo, I just don't like em cuz they belong 2 Cleveland. On the other hand, I'd root 4 the teams that R from Da Burgh (Penguins, Pirates, etc.) 2 win. And I hate hockey, and think baseball is so boring. But I'd root 4 em anyways. It just sucks that V don't have a NBA team in Pittsburgh.

As 4 his Irish comments, heck I always liked Irish & the Brits. Wonder what he would think, if he finds out I even asked my wife 2 play Scotish pipe music on my funeral someday when I die. Better, I wonder what he's gonna say if I say I like the Irish & the whole Catholics BECAUSE of Mr. Rooney.
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