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Old 03-25-2009, 12:17 PM   #51
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Default Re: Obama climate plan could cost $2 trillion

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Originally Posted by revefsreleets View Post
I believe you qualify for both stimulus bill AND spending bill bail out cash for all of these wonderful initiatives.

However, all the responsible people here who don't have debt to their eyeballs, unfortunately you for you, we have to raise your taxes.
What's sad about that statements...is that if I told you to not be so pessimistic...you could easily (and correctly) state that you're "positive" that it will happen that way.
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Old 03-25-2009, 12:53 PM   #52
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Default Re: Obama climate plan could cost $2 trillion

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im NOT calling you out. im critiquing the post NOT the poster i.e. not making it personal (something so many around here have a problem doing).
You quoted me, so I took it as you calling me out.

Quote:
i would say that as the richest government in the world, ALL americans have become accustomed to a sense of entitlement.

the fact is as americans we DONT have to live within a reasonable budget. that is what got us into this economic problem in the first place. our leadership has taught us that its ok to live on credit.
And that sense of entitlement came straight from our leadership over the years by promising everyone the Sun, Moon and stars, knowing full well that fulfilling those promises is next to impossible.

I agree that we're in this financial mess because of people living beyond their means, so wouldn't you think now would be a good time for leadership to actually "lead" and practice fiscal responsibility, showing Americans the value of doing the same? Instead, we're getting $800+ billion "stimulus packages" that is nothing more than a glorified spending bill, multi-billion dollar bailouts of shady companies and, now, the possibility of $2 trillion being spent in the name of climate change. Let's fix the economy FIRST, then worry about funding for climate change and Obama's other pet projects, because there won't be any money for them if the economy still sucks. After all, you can't squeeze juice out of a dry lemon.
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Old 03-26-2009, 09:21 AM   #53
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Default Re: Obama climate plan could cost $2 trillion

Hey, lets go green!

How efficient are the solar panels that were inspected by President Obama? The Denver Museum of Science isn't telling. But you are helping to foot the bill for the solar array that won't pay for itself until the year 2118.
by Todd Shepherd


Before signing the $787 billion stimulus package into law on Feburary 17, 2009, President Barack Obama and Vice President Joe Biden toured an array of solar panels on top of the Denver Museum of Nature and Science. The photo-op allowed the President to once again extol the virtues of the coming “green” economy.

According to the Denver Post's article on the event, “The sun generates enough energy on the museum rooftop to power about 30 homes.” However, that claim cannot be verified at this time, and in fact, seems to be belied by the scant information provided by the museum and other sources.[1] Laura Holtman, Public Relations Manager for the Museum said in an email, “Because the array generates less than 5 percent of the Museum's power, [the purchased energy] is not a particularly large bill.”

The Independence Institute asked the Denver Museum of Science and Nature to provide certain statistical information regarding the now-famous solar array. Specifically, the Institute asked for:

1 ) Two years worth of electric bills prior to the installation of the solar array,
2 ) All electric bills following the completion of the installation.

The Museum denied those requests.

The solar array is not owned by the Museum, however. It is owned by Hybrid Energy Group, LLC. HEG owns the solar array, sells the electricity to the Museum, and receives tax incentives from the state and federal governments, while also receiving “rebates” from Xcel Energy. The rebates are funded by a surcharge collected on the monthly bill of every Colorado Xcel customer.

A 2008 article in the Denver Business Journal sheds further light on the subject. The article notes the total price of the solar array was $720,000. And Dave Noel, VP of operations and chief technology officer for the Museum, was quoted as saying, “We looked at first installing [the solar array] ourselves, and without any of the incentive programs, it was a 110-year payout.” Noel went on to say that the Museum did not purchase the solar array because it did not “make sense financially.”

Additionally, most solar panels have an expected life-span of 20 to 25 years.

So how can Hybrid Energy Group afford to own a solar array that not even the museum would buy? In part, HEG gets “rebates” from Xcel's “Solar Rewards” program. The Solar Rewards program is a response to Colorado voters passing Amendment 37 in 2004. The Amendment mandated that Colorado utilities procure a certain percentage of their power generation from renewable resources like wind and solar.

“Amendment 37 really should have been called a tax,” said Independence Institute President Jon Caldara. “And it would have been interesting to see whether it would have passed if the ballot language had started off with the phrase, 'shall there be an increase in energy taxes?' For those of you who are Xcel customers, look at your bill and find the line that says 'Renew. Energy Std. Adj.' Then realize that you are paying this “adjustment” to buy solar panels which the museum has admitted that without any government subsidization wouldn't pay for themselves until the year 2118.”


http://www.i2i.org/main/page.php?page_id=248
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Old 03-26-2009, 12:11 PM   #54
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Default Re: Obama climate plan could cost $2 trillion

"Look, there's Sarah Palin!"

"George Bush did this and that!"
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Old 03-26-2009, 12:44 PM   #55
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Default Re: Obama climate plan could cost $2 trillion

but, but, but I inherited the problem. Its not my fault.
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Old 03-26-2009, 12:47 PM   #56
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Default Re: Obama climate plan could cost $2 trillion

This is complete insanity.
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Old 03-26-2009, 12:50 PM   #57
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Default Re: Obama climate plan could cost $2 trillion

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The solar array is not owned by the Museum, however. It is owned by Hybrid Energy Group, LLC. HEG owns the solar array, sells the electricity to the Museum, and receives tax incentives from the state and federal governments, while also receiving “rebates” from Xcel Energy. The rebates are funded by a surcharge collected on the monthly bill of every Colorado Xcel customer.
Exactly - the bastards jack mine and others' electric bills up to cover these "rebates." Xcel Energy is as crooked as they come.
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Old 03-26-2009, 11:52 PM   #58
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Default Re: Obama climate plan could cost $2 trillion

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Exactly - the bastards jack mine and others' electric bills up to cover these "rebates." Xcel Energy is as crooked as they come.
question?

how much did your gas and electic bills go up last year vs. the price of gasoline?

i know down here in new mexico it used to cost about the same for us to provide heat/cooling and electricity for a month as it did to keep fuel in 2 cars. then all of a sudden the price to fuel the vehicles increased 100%.

i know for sure the price of gas and electricity hasnt gone up 100%.

now our democratic governor is big on alternative (and yes... even green) sources of fuel such as solar, wind, hydrothermal, and he's also big on drilling for oil in the rocky mountain states (which includes colorado).

he also povided an energy rebate 2-3 years ago to ALL new mexico tax payers because energy prices were shooting through the roof and new mexico was raking in profits from the over inflated price of the natural gas it was producing.

some would call it a "tax break".

but this kinda sounds like a threat to our dependence on foreign oil and the profiteers of "big oil". i know!

lets come up with a bogus "investigation" that will prevent him from taking a bigger position in obamas cabinet!

what a joke.


... and it is US who will ultimately suffer.
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Old 03-27-2009, 08:52 AM   #59
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Default Re: Obama climate plan could cost $2 trillion

Update: The Congressional Democrats axed the cap and trade parts of the budget. They also scrapped the carbon tax. The long and short of this is that they finally got their head out of their asses and realized that THIS is NOT the time to spend cash on this stuff.

Fix the economy, get re-elected and try this stuff in the second term (that's generic advice, by the way, just smart politics)
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Old 03-27-2009, 09:28 AM   #60
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Default Re: Obama climate plan could cost $2 trillion

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Originally Posted by tony hipchest View Post
question?

how much did your gas and electic bills go up last year vs. the price of gasoline?

i know down here in new mexico it used to cost about the same for us to provide heat/cooling and electricity for a month as it did to keep fuel in 2 cars. then all of a sudden the price to fuel the vehicles increased 100%.

i know for sure the price of gas and electricity hasnt gone up 100%.

now our democratic governor is big on alternative (and yes... even green) sources of fuel such as solar, wind, hydrothermal, and he's also big on drilling for oil in the rocky mountain states (which includes colorado).

he also povided an energy rebate 2-3 years ago to ALL new mexico tax payers because energy prices were shooting through the roof and new mexico was raking in profits from the over inflated price of the natural gas it was producing.

some would call it a "tax break".

but this kinda sounds like a threat to our dependence on foreign oil and the profiteers of "big oil". i know!

lets come up with a bogus "investigation" that will prevent him from taking a bigger position in obamas cabinet!

what a joke.


... and it is US who will ultimately suffer.
My electric bill went up approximately 25% last year at some point - don't remember which month exactly, for approximately the same amount of electricity usage. My natural gas bill stayed about the same after making about a 70% jump during the previous winter. That was the one that kind of hurt and actually forced a lot of families to request public assistance to pay their utility bills.
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