Why register with the Steelers Fever Forums?
 • Intelligent and friendly discussions.
 • It's free and it's quick. Always.
 • Enter events in the forums calendar.
 • Very user friendly software.
 • Exclusive contests and giveaways.

 Donate to Steelers Fever, Click here
 Our 2014 Goal: $450.00 - To Date: $450.00 (100.00%)
 Home | Forums | Editorials | Shop | Tickets | Downloads | Contact Pittsburgh Steelers Forum Feed Not Just Fans. Hardcore Fans.

Go Back   Steelers Fever Forums > Pittsburgh Sports > Pittsburgh Pirates


Steelers Fever Fan Shop

Doc's Sports Get FREE NFL Picks and College Football picks as well as Football Lines like live NFL Lines and updated NFL Power Rankings all at Doc's Sports Service.

Steelers Fever Presents...

Steelers Panthers

GAMEDAY
Sunday, September 21, 8:30 PM
NBC
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-05-2009, 04:39 PM   #301
T.Richardson
Head Coach
Supporter
 
T.Richardson's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,562
Gender: Male
Member Number: 10617
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: 2009 Pittsburgh Pirates Season Thread

Guys take a look at this page 2 article, its got some good facts, and I agree with it, maybe except that part about McLouth, though there is some truth to it.

It is now accepted as fact that the Pittsburgh Pirates are the most pathetic franchise in professional sports. The Nate McLouth trade confirmed it, no?

Sixteen consecutive losing seasons. This year would make 17 -- an all-time record in professional sports. Even the Lions and Clippers aren't that bad.

In a city that boasts the reigning Super Bowl champion and a hockey team that has made consecutive trips to the Stanley Cup finals, you'd think that Pirates management would be able to learn how to build a winner by example. Yet they are hopeless. It's a fact.

Well, you have your facts and I have mine.




Fact #1: .500 is not a goal. And 82-80 is not the promised land.


Now we see what 16 consecutive losing seasons can do to a fan base. In a city where half the population would consider letting the waters of the confluence consume them if the Steelers finished the season 8-8 or 9-7 ... in a city where they expect a hockey team led by a 21- and 22-year-old to win the Stanley Cup ... when it comes to baseball, all many fans dream of is mediocrity.


It's pathetic. Rooting for .500 is pathetic. Yes, nearly two decades of horrible management decisions pushed many Pirates fans to this. But have some dignity, people. Please. A .500 record is just losing with a pretty bow on it. It's just 62-100 without the high draft picks.


Fact #2: Nate McLouth is not a star.

He's just not. Pirates fans, after all the bad baseball you have been subjected to, I'm afraid your ability to properly evaluate talent can't really be trusted. Sorry.

A poor kid may think his yo-yo is the greatest toy ever made. But a rich kid's PlayStation 3 is still better.

Nate McLouth is a nice major league player. Great baserunner, good glove, and he's got some pop. He is a good outfielder on a mediocre team. On a championship-caliber team? He's a third outfielder. Maybe even a fourth outfielder. Notice that no one is touting the Braves as World Series favorites now. Or even NL East favorites. Career .261 hitters tend not to shift the balance of power in baseball.


Fact #3: The Pirates would not be good if they had kept their "core" in place.

Please stop pretending that last year's Opening Day outfield of Jason Bay, McLouth and Xavier Nady would one day be inducted en masse into Cooperstown. Please. You're embarrassing yourselves.

When Nady was dealt last year, the Pirates were 48-55. When Bay left, they were 50-58. When McLouth was traded on Wednesday, they were 24-28. The Pirates aren't exactly breaking up the '27 Yankees. The '67 Yankees, maybe.

And, really, Xavier Nady?! We're talking about missing Xavier Nady? Not Barry Bonds, not Jason Bay. Not even Brian Giles. We talkin' about Xavier Nady. Xavier Nady, man. Xavier Nady. I mean, how silly is that. Xavier Nady.

Fact #4: The Pirates' front office actually knows what it's doing.

No. Really. And trust me, that was a hard sentence for me to write. The Microsoft Word paper-clip guy even popped up and said, "You appear to be talking crazy. Need me to contact the psychiatric hospital?"

But they do. Or, at the very least, they have a legitimate plan that they're sticking to. The past regimes of Cam Bonifay and Dave Littlefield would bounce back and forth between youth movements and signing undesired veterans to above-market contracts in hopes the magical land of .500 would be reached so they could keep their jobs.

New team president Frank Coonelly and general manager Neal Huntington have been on the job for a season and a half. They are not to blame for all that came before them. They inherited a franchise with little talent at the major league level and almost none in the minors. Not a strong hand to play. And an impossible hand to make a quick turnaround with. President Obama thinks he stepped into a bad situation. I'd take two wars and the worst economy since the Great Depression over a starting rotation that included Matt Morris and Ian Snell.


Fact #5: There is legitimate reason for hope in the very near future.

(Leave me alone, paper clip!) I realize Pirates fans have heard that before. I recall there was supposed to be a "championship contender" in place for the opening of PNC Park. PNC Park opened in 2001. That team went 62-100. The best team to play in the stadium (so far) went 75-87. The stadium has been open nine @$^*# years and the best team to play there was 75-87? My God. (Where's that paper clip. I want to unbend it and stab myself in the eye.)

But the current management is trying to do it the right way. They are breaking the team down. Completely. And then they're going to build it back up. Gone are the days of partial demolishments abandoned halfway through and patched together with some leftovers pulled off a trailer home.

In the Nady trade, the Pirates got 40 percent of their current starting rotation and a possible future star in Jose Tabata. (Yes, he has a 43-year-old wife who is an alleged baby-stealer. These are still the Pirates.) That trade was a clear win for Pittsburgh.

In the Bay trade, the Pirates got their current starting third baseman and several other prospects with high ceilings. That trade was a win for both sides.

In the McLouth trade, they got three highly regarded minor leaguers and cleared the way for potential superstar center fielder Andrew McCutchen, who went 2-for-4 with 3 runs, an RBI, a walk and a stolen base Thursday in his major league debut.

McCutchen is the kind of centerpiece player a team can build around -- a winning team can build around. Minor league third baseman Pedro Alvarez is projected to be that kind of player, too. They are not .500 messiahs like McLouth and Nady.

Just a couple more years of patience, Pirates fans. Trust me on this. It will be worth it.

Now, if you'll excuse me, some people in white coats are knocking on my door.


http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2...5&sportCat=mlb


I ask you guys, do you want 1 winning season? or a championship contender every year?
__________________
T.Richardson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2009, 05:12 PM   #302
Pittsburghfan
Banned
 

Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,384
Member Number: 5129
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: 2009 Pittsburgh Pirates Season Thread

Just came to drop off some good news. The one pitcher from the McLouth trade
Charlie Morton's debut as an Indian:
7 IP
96 pitches
66 strikes
4 hits
1 walk
0 runs
11 ground outs
3 fly outs
7 strike outs

EDIT; i see someone else posted.
Pittsburghfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2009, 05:56 PM   #303
X-Terminator
Mr. Wrong
Supporter
 
X-Terminator's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 6,881
Gender: Male
Member Number: 2550
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: 2009 Pittsburgh Pirates Season Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by T.Richardson View Post
Guys take a look at this page 2 article, its got some good facts, and I agree with it, maybe except that part about McLouth, though there is some truth to it.

It is now accepted as fact that the Pittsburgh Pirates are the most pathetic franchise in professional sports. The Nate McLouth trade confirmed it, no?

Sixteen consecutive losing seasons. This year would make 17 -- an all-time record in professional sports. Even the Lions and Clippers aren't that bad.

In a city that boasts the reigning Super Bowl champion and a hockey team that has made consecutive trips to the Stanley Cup finals, you'd think that Pirates management would be able to learn how to build a winner by example. Yet they are hopeless. It's a fact.

Well, you have your facts and I have mine.




Fact #1: .500 is not a goal. And 82-80 is not the promised land.


Now we see what 16 consecutive losing seasons can do to a fan base. In a city where half the population would consider letting the waters of the confluence consume them if the Steelers finished the season 8-8 or 9-7 ... in a city where they expect a hockey team led by a 21- and 22-year-old to win the Stanley Cup ... when it comes to baseball, all many fans dream of is mediocrity.


It's pathetic. Rooting for .500 is pathetic. Yes, nearly two decades of horrible management decisions pushed many Pirates fans to this. But have some dignity, people. Please. A .500 record is just losing with a pretty bow on it. It's just 62-100 without the high draft picks.


Fact #2: Nate McLouth is not a star.

He's just not. Pirates fans, after all the bad baseball you have been subjected to, I'm afraid your ability to properly evaluate talent can't really be trusted. Sorry.

A poor kid may think his yo-yo is the greatest toy ever made. But a rich kid's PlayStation 3 is still better.

Nate McLouth is a nice major league player. Great baserunner, good glove, and he's got some pop. He is a good outfielder on a mediocre team. On a championship-caliber team? He's a third outfielder. Maybe even a fourth outfielder. Notice that no one is touting the Braves as World Series favorites now. Or even NL East favorites. Career .261 hitters tend not to shift the balance of power in baseball.


Fact #3: The Pirates would not be good if they had kept their "core" in place.

Please stop pretending that last year's Opening Day outfield of Jason Bay, McLouth and Xavier Nady would one day be inducted en masse into Cooperstown. Please. You're embarrassing yourselves.

When Nady was dealt last year, the Pirates were 48-55. When Bay left, they were 50-58. When McLouth was traded on Wednesday, they were 24-28. The Pirates aren't exactly breaking up the '27 Yankees. The '67 Yankees, maybe.

And, really, Xavier Nady?! We're talking about missing Xavier Nady? Not Barry Bonds, not Jason Bay. Not even Brian Giles. We talkin' about Xavier Nady. Xavier Nady, man. Xavier Nady. I mean, how silly is that. Xavier Nady.

Fact #4: The Pirates' front office actually knows what it's doing.

No. Really. And trust me, that was a hard sentence for me to write. The Microsoft Word paper-clip guy even popped up and said, "You appear to be talking crazy. Need me to contact the psychiatric hospital?"

But they do. Or, at the very least, they have a legitimate plan that they're sticking to. The past regimes of Cam Bonifay and Dave Littlefield would bounce back and forth between youth movements and signing undesired veterans to above-market contracts in hopes the magical land of .500 would be reached so they could keep their jobs.

New team president Frank Coonelly and general manager Neal Huntington have been on the job for a season and a half. They are not to blame for all that came before them. They inherited a franchise with little talent at the major league level and almost none in the minors. Not a strong hand to play. And an impossible hand to make a quick turnaround with. President Obama thinks he stepped into a bad situation. I'd take two wars and the worst economy since the Great Depression over a starting rotation that included Matt Morris and Ian Snell.


Fact #5: There is legitimate reason for hope in the very near future.

(Leave me alone, paper clip!) I realize Pirates fans have heard that before. I recall there was supposed to be a "championship contender" in place for the opening of PNC Park. PNC Park opened in 2001. That team went 62-100. The best team to play in the stadium (so far) went 75-87. The stadium has been open nine @$^*# years and the best team to play there was 75-87? My God. (Where's that paper clip. I want to unbend it and stab myself in the eye.)

But the current management is trying to do it the right way. They are breaking the team down. Completely. And then they're going to build it back up. Gone are the days of partial demolishments abandoned halfway through and patched together with some leftovers pulled off a trailer home.

In the Nady trade, the Pirates got 40 percent of their current starting rotation and a possible future star in Jose Tabata. (Yes, he has a 43-year-old wife who is an alleged baby-stealer. These are still the Pirates.) That trade was a clear win for Pittsburgh.

In the Bay trade, the Pirates got their current starting third baseman and several other prospects with high ceilings. That trade was a win for both sides.

In the McLouth trade, they got three highly regarded minor leaguers and cleared the way for potential superstar center fielder Andrew McCutchen, who went 2-for-4 with 3 runs, an RBI, a walk and a stolen base Thursday in his major league debut.

McCutchen is the kind of centerpiece player a team can build around -- a winning team can build around. Minor league third baseman Pedro Alvarez is projected to be that kind of player, too. They are not .500 messiahs like McLouth and Nady.

Just a couple more years of patience, Pirates fans. Trust me on this. It will be worth it.

Now, if you'll excuse me, some people in white coats are knocking on my door.


http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2...5&sportCat=mlb


I ask you guys, do you want 1 winning season? or a championship contender every year?
That's a nice article and all, and there are even some points I agree with. And of course, I want a championship contender every year. But dude, it's been SIXTEEN YEARS. Sixteen years of "rebuilding." Sixteen years of empty promises. Sixteen years of watching good player after good player traded to the freaking Yankees. Fifteen years of garbage drafts (last year is the exception). I want some winning baseball RIGHT NOW. I'm tired of my favorite baseball team continuing to be the laughingstock of pro sports. And while the author of the article mentions the talent that is here and on the way, he fails to mention that the Pirates have a greedy ass owner who will promptly trade all of those guys away if it means putting $15 million more dollars in his pocket.

No, I want to win NOW. I want to see 81-81 NOW. After that happens, THEN I want to see a perennial winner. Yes, according to the author of the article, that means I have no dignity left as a Pirates fan. Can you blame me?
__________________
X-Terminator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2009, 07:20 PM   #304
BehindSteelCurtain
Team Captain
 
BehindSteelCurtain's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 918
Member Number: 11279
Thanks: 1
Thanked 8 Times in 5 Posts
Default Re: 2009 Pittsburgh Pirates Season Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by X-Terminator View Post
That's a nice article and all, and there are even some points I agree with. And of course, I want a championship contender every year. But dude, it's been SIXTEEN YEARS. Sixteen years of "rebuilding." Sixteen years of empty promises. Sixteen years of watching good player after good player traded to the freaking Yankees. Fifteen years of garbage drafts (last year is the exception). I want some winning baseball RIGHT NOW. I'm tired of my favorite baseball team continuing to be the laughingstock of pro sports. And while the author of the article mentions the talent that is here and on the way, he fails to mention that the Pirates have a greedy ass owner who will promptly trade all of those guys away if it means putting $15 million more dollars in his pocket.

No, I want to win NOW. I want to see 81-81 NOW. After that happens, THEN I want to see a perennial winner. Yes, according to the author of the article, that means I have no dignity left as a Pirates fan. Can you blame me?
I totally agree with you and I agree with the guy who wrote this article. Littlefield screwed up the Pirates. No talent in the minors and none at the MLB level. In fact, I love the way this team is heading (for now). McCutchen, Alvarez, and Tabata. I also agree that McLouth wasn't that great. I mean he was good but he wouldnt be a superstar on any other team. I love our farm system now. Plus the draft is next week. If they take the BPA again that will say something about the direction this team is going instead of drafting the guys who will be easiest to sign.
__________________
BehindSteelCurtain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2009, 07:47 PM   #305
Edman
Living Legend
 

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 5,558
Gender: Male
Member Number: 3261
Thanks: 87
Thanked 322 Times in 168 Posts
My Mood: Brooding
Default Re: 2009 Pittsburgh Pirates Season Thread

DJ Gallo makes a few points but honestly, Pirates fans don't want a winner. We just want hope at this point. Bucs fans are done waiting for a winner. We just want hope for a winner. We want progress. A .500 record soldifies that. A .500 record is progress. Asking for a winner has pretty much flew over Bucs' fans heads at this point. If realism makes us pathetic and less dignified, I'll take it. Saves me the disappointment of seeing my hometown baseball team blow yet another promise. Steeler fans will be disappointed in a 9-7 and 8-8 season because the Steelers have been one the winningest franchises in the NFL for the past thirty years. Since the 70's the Steelers have never suffered a long string of ineptitude as bad as the Buccos. In fact, they've been the opposite. Hell, the Pre-70's Steelers, notorious for being an NFL doormat, never reached the point of setting a freaking record for consecutive losing seasons in professional sports like the Pirates are now.

The last time the Pirates had a winning season, I was in my first year of preschool. I'm in college now. Hell, the Gen Y children of Pirate fans in the 70's haven't even came close to seeing winning baseball in Pittsburgh. My (grand)parents have always told me stories of the Family Pirates, Clemente, and Maz.

We have the most beautiful ballpark in the league and nothing to show for it. PNC is a stadium worth a winning team.

Last edited by Edman; 06-05-2009 at 07:58 PM.
Edman is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2009, 08:42 PM   #306
RoethlisBURGHer
Living Legend
Supporter
 
RoethlisBURGHer's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Clowns Town,Ohio
Posts: 5,941
Member Number: 370
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: 2009 Pittsburgh Pirates Season Thread

I really hope that Neal Huntington can build this team. It would be really nice if Nutting would sell them to someone who wants actually wants to put a competitive team onto the field.
__________________

Congrats to the 2009 Stanley Cup Champion Pittsburgh Penguins
RoethlisBURGHer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2009, 09:20 PM   #307
pittsburghp8baller
Head Coach
Supporter
 
pittsburghp8baller's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: In A Place Where There Is No Other Hockey Fans!!!!!!
Posts: 1,874
Gender: Male
Member Number: 5365
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: 2009 Pittsburgh Pirates Season Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by BehindSteelCurtain View Post
I totally agree with you and I agree with the guy who wrote this article. Littlefield screwed up the Pirates. No talent in the minors and none at the MLB level. In fact, I love the way this team is heading (for now). McCutchen, Alvarez, and Tabata. I also agree that McLouth wasn't that great. I mean he was good but he wouldnt be a superstar on any other team. I love our farm system now. Plus the draft is next week. If they take the BPA again that will say something about the direction this team is going instead of drafting the guys who will be easiest to sign.
Huntington hasnt given me any reason to doubt him yet, for the short time he has been here he has really improved this team. Huntington has said that money is no object once again and that they will be going BPA, which i can see that being Alex White or Aaron Crow. Even though id rather us go Kyle Gibson but his stock has dropped with arm stifness during the Regionals. I wont go into all the draft talk while we are talking about this.

I agree with everything that article has to say. I know its been hard, the last time the Pirates had a winning season i was four years old. This management has really given me hope and has re-energized my love for baseball that i had when i was a kid growing up. We got to give THIS management a little more time they have gotten us a lot farther to the point that we are only 6.5 games back this deep in the season. Sad as it is, this is the furtherst into the season that we are this close to .500 that i can remember. If we can pick things up after the all-star break like we usually do, we may finish right around the .500 spot.

And i really believe that right now the Washington Nationals are a even bigger joke than we are. Ownership has NO idea what there are doing, they fined a guy for showing up late to warm ups cause he was at a charity event that his team was sponsoring. they couldnt even get people to fill in for a game where somebody (according to a lot, the last) ended winning his 300th career win. give them time they will be a bigger joke than us
__________________
pittsburghp8baller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2009, 10:30 PM   #308
Crushzilla
Team Owner
Supporter
 
Crushzilla's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: The City of Champions
Posts: 2,954
Gender: Male
Member Number: 5106
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: 2009 Pittsburgh Pirates Season Thread

Yes. Nate McLouth wouldn't be the centerpiece of a championship outfield.

He's also not getting paid $15 dollars. For what the Pirates will pay, however, he's pretty damn close to as good as it gets. For all intents and purposes, I would consider McLouth a five-tool outfielder.

Who's bitching about Nady? Nady was a nice surprise, but I give management credit for pulling the trigger at the right time. They shipped him when his value peaked.

Now that I've had some time to digest the McLouth trade, I've become a little more comfortable with it. I understand the purpose, but I'm not going to be satisfied until I see some SUSTAINED return. I don't want to see us breed these prospects and ship them off for more prospects.

The Pirates developmental program is more of a turnstile than Max Starks. (I don't think I mean the Starks comment, but I couldn't resist)
__________________
Mad props to Steel-Bryan for the Bucco sig.
Crushzilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2009, 12:03 PM   #309
Pittsburghfan
Banned
 

Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,384
Member Number: 5129
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: 2009 Pittsburgh Pirates Season Thread

I was just going on my daily run through the sports websites I go through, and I found this. Bryce Harper, this kid is only 16 and still has a few years before his draft year. Watch this video and I would love for the Bucs to draft him in a couple years. We could be at 18+ losing seasons by then ( Maybe I thought wrong) this kid could be the savior of this franchise if we are still terrible.

Pittsburghfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2009, 02:12 PM   #310
BehindSteelCurtain
Team Captain
 
BehindSteelCurtain's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 918
Member Number: 11279
Thanks: 1
Thanked 8 Times in 5 Posts
Default Re: 2009 Pittsburgh Pirates Season Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pittsburghfan View Post
I was just going on my daily run through the sports websites I go through, and I found this. Bryce Harper, this kid is only 16 and still has a few years before his draft year. Watch this video and I would love for the Bucs to draft him in a couple years. We could be at 18+ losing seasons by then ( Maybe I thought wrong) this kid could be the savior of this franchise if we are still terrible.

Yea I read about that kid in Sports Illustrated. He was on the cover. He is supposed to be the LeBron James of baseball. He has a 96 MPH fastball, so fast that he scored from second on a pass ball, as catcher can throw people out from his knees, and hit a homer 570 feet.
__________________
BehindSteelCurtain is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:08 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Shoutbox provided by vBShout v6.2.1 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.0.8 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd. Runs best on HiVelocity Hosting.
Navbar with Avatar by Motorradforum
no new posts