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Old 05-26-2009, 12:22 AM   #41
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Default Re: Why are there soo many people joining the Military?

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do you feel that 70 out of 4000+ is a fair sample size in which revs uses to back his claim?
a sample size of voters in the us is usually 750-1000 voters, when there are about 100 million voters. That works out to approx. 10 voters for every million as a sample size.

So... to answer your question.. is 1:100,000 a greater or less sample size than 7:400??

In fact, a sample size of 70 will give a population of 4000 a 2.31 percent margin of error, meaning that with 95% confidence, the numbers will be right to within 2.31 percent. With 99% confidence, the numbers will be right to within 3.04 percent, or 10.04% (Revs 7% plus 2.31percent Margin of Error) of all service deaths in the war are black servicemen and women, by extrapolation.

How fascinating that the REAL NUMBERS, as given and referenced below, are 9.49 percent, which falls within the 99 percent confidence margin at 10.

So your answer, according to statistics and sample size and backed up by the actual numbers, is that YES, this IS a good sample size.

Or, did you mean this is a tainted source fallacy? That is a different argument...

I think what you mean is that it isn't a "representative" sample. That may be true, but sure ain't what you're arguing.

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Of course Tony, I know one thing we both agree on, and probably everyone here, is that even 1 is too many. It is very sad. . . and this country owes them, their families, and more than we can EVER give them, regardless of skin color or political party.
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Old 05-26-2009, 12:33 AM   #42
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Default Re: Why are there soo many people joining the Military?

one last thing too....I want to remind everyone what I said was from my own observation, not from actual statistics (because honestly those are stats I dont care to know)

But Toney let me throw this tid bit out in the Airborne I witnessed many more asians or pacific islanders than blacks..... so go figure.
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Old 05-26-2009, 12:55 AM   #43
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Default Re: Why are there soo many people joining the Military?

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Right, I never argued that point.

.
ok. with this statement i figured you were-

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I would say in general observations many times of groups of soldiers from the(army,navy,airforce,marines) it is disporportionate.
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Or, did you mean this is a tainted source fallacy? That is a different argument...

I think what you mean is that it isn't a "representative" sample. That may be true, but sure ain't what you're arguing.

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Of course Tony, I know one thing we both agree on, and probably everyone here, is that even 1 is too many. It is very sad. . . and this country owes them, their families, and more than we can EVER give them, regardless of skin color or political party.
i have been pretty clear that a sample size of 70 KIA concentrated around akron ohio isnt accurate of our entire enlisted military. i stand by that.

as for the second point, i totally agree, and find it a bit disgusting that yet another one of these discussions gor drug down to a racial matter.

one day as a society, we will be beyond that.

oh, and steelwall, i have also noticed a higher proportion of asians and islanders in the military (air force) primarilly amerasians whose fathers served in korea, vietnam, or done tdy time overseas and married someone they met over there.

about 1/5th of my employees (8 of 40) are asian dependants who have gained citizenship via their military husbands. just about each one of them has a child who has or currently serves in the military. those are just my employees now. ive had many more in the past.

it seems taht none of them have needed much of a recruiter to convince them to join. growing up as military brats, they have seen it is an honorable and successful way to go w/o much poking and prodding.

but unlike revs w/o proper research, i will not throw out a generalized blanket statement as "the military seems disproportionately higher with asians" in hopes that it sticks as undisputable fact.

he asked a question and i answered it. that is that.
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Old 05-26-2009, 01:14 AM   #44
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Default Re: Why are there soo many people joining the Military?

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ok. with this statement i figured you were-



i have been pretty clear that a sample size of 70 KIA concentrated around akron ohio isnt accurate of our entire enlisted military. i stand by that.

as for the second point, i totally agree, and find it a bit disgusting that yet another one of these discussions gor drug down to a racial matter.

one day as a society, we will be beyond that.

oh, and steelwall, i have also noticed a higher proportion of asians and islanders in the military (air force) primarilly amerasians whose fathers served in korea, vietnam, or done tdy time overseas and married someone they met over there.

about 1/5th of my employees (8 of 40) are asian dependants who have gained citizenship via their military husbands. just about each one of them has a child who has or currently serves in the military. those are just my employees now. ive had many more in the past.

it seems taht none of them have needed much of a recruiter to convince them to join. growing up as military brats, they have seen it is an honorable and successful way to go w/o much poking and prodding.

but unlike revs w/o proper research, i will not throw out a generalized blanket statement as "the military seems disproportionately higher with asians" in hopes that it sticks as undisputable fact.

he asked a question and i answered it. that is that.

That law about gaining citizenship for service is fairly new.... I knew a crapload of Phillipino airborne soldiers (great soldiers) but thought that it was a shitty deal they serve and don't get citizenship......


HEY!!!!!! just found the sollution for illegal immigartion make them all serve in the armed forces to gain citizenship!!!!! Who's with me???
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Old 05-26-2009, 01:36 AM   #45
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Default Re: Why are there soo many people joining the Military?

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it seems taht none of them have needed much of a recruiter to convince them to join. growing up as military brats, they have seen it is an honorable and successful way to go w/o much poking and prodding.
Tell ya this much... growing up military completely changes a mindset. It also changed how I interacted with people. I can sit down and talk to somebody, and within minutes, it is like we are long lost friends, many times when that happens, I find out they are military or military brats. There is just some kind of connection there. It is really interesting.

I don't know if you grew up military, but if you have worked on AFB's long enough, you might know exactly what I am talking about (meaning you are like that too).

STEEL.. yea, I think that is a great idea. Want to be a citizen? Sign up to serve a 6 year stint in the military first. You can bring your wife, children, parents, and siblings (who are NOT of age yet). Yeah, I think that would work out well.
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Old 05-26-2009, 02:37 AM   #46
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Default Re: Why are there soo many people joining the Military?

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I don't know if you grew up military, but if you have worked on AFB's long enough, you might know exactly what I am talking about (meaning you are like that too).

..
i know exactly what you are talking about. i work at the exact same air force base i was born on. the only other 2 places i have called home (other than college) are vandenberg afb and davis-monthan afb.
oddly enough, my mom was born at davis-monthan, where, as a baby, eisenhower kissed her, while on his campaign trail. her dad retired from holloman, after turning down a lucrative post in washington dc. at that time he was the youngest enlisted man to ever climb to the ranks of chief.

after 20+ years, and being in charge of loading and sending back all the body bags from nam, he finally got sick of all the politics behind it and not so politely declined the promotion.

instead of going to college, my dad joined the military just to get out of pittsburgh. he wound up in po-dunk new mexico.

funny how life works. after almost 35 years he will be moving back here next year, and i wish i could live in pittsburgh...

i must say, from my own personal experience that the military is more integrated, diverse, and open, than any other aspect of society i have been exposed to, or lived in.

but thats just me and i wont try to inflict it on everyone else.
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Old 05-26-2009, 08:40 AM   #47
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Default Re: Why are there soo many people joining the Military?

It was merely an observation, and an interesting one because WHAT I OBSERVED LOCALLY DIFFERED FROM WHAT THE POP PRESS HAS BEEN SPOONFEEDING us.

Anyway, no disrespect to the fallen intended.

Perhaps you could draw us a map, Tony?
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Old 05-26-2009, 11:10 AM   #48
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Default Re: Why are there soo many people joining the Military?

I think its a Federal Conspiracy started by the Former Administration to get people to join up without having to have a Draft by destroying the Economy and leaving young men and women fresh out of highschool or even college with the prospect of going into a dead economy where hundreds of thousands of jobs are being shredded, or go into the Military because the Federal Government is one of the only sectors showing any employment Growth.

So instead of drafting, you force those who are in dire economic straits to either flip burgers or go dodge bullets. One pays more and has health insurance, the other, well sucks and gives you pimples.

Its all the Federal Governments Doing.

By the way, when I joined it was because I was not ready for college and needed to do something different that gave me Discipline and life experience. I wanted to Serve my country and make my Family Proud. So that could be the reason people join too and it might not be the Fed's fault at all. But if that's the case then I'm wearing this tin foil hat for nothing.
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Old 05-26-2009, 11:20 AM   #49
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Default Re: Why are there soo many people joining the Military?

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That law about gaining citizenship for service is fairly new.... I knew a crapload of Phillipino airborne soldiers (great soldiers) but thought that it was a shitty deal they serve and don't get citizenship......


HEY!!!!!! just found the sollution for illegal immigartion make them all serve in the armed forces to gain citizenship!!!!! Who's with me???
I said that during the amnesty debate. They should have a deal where if you're here illegally you can enlist and serve honorably and all will be forgiven. (Same deal should be offered to anyone who rats out a "Mexican" who speaks Spanish with a Middle Eastern accent.)
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Old 05-26-2009, 11:43 AM   #50
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Default Re: Why are there soo many people joining the Military?

Let's face it, more people are joining the military because as long as you play by the rules, it's got better job security than civilian life.

That and great dental!
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