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Old 06-26-2009, 06:14 PM   #91
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Default Re: Patriots can be king of all eras

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Originally Posted by HughC View Post
I interpet "allow them to stake their claim" to mean that they could claim to be the best - no different than those other teams could also "stake their claim" to be the best. In my opinion that is what is what the writer said.

Your opinion is that the writer is saying that they would be the best if they win, period, end of story. To me, if the writer was saying that they would be the best at that point, he would not have used the words "stake their claim" since more than one person or group can stake their claim to something.

Regardless of how much you bold, or how large a font size you use, in my opinion you are misinterpeting what was written. You're taking portions of a sentence and taking them out of context.

You yourself gave the scenario of 'no matter how many games they win', and I pointed out what their accomplishments would be that would allow them to be considered "team of all decades." I already refuted your position in the last comment, I'm not going to repeat myself; reread it if you want an explanation.

And again, the tuck rule is a bad rule but it was the right call since that's what's on the books. Besides, the Raiders still had plenty of opportunity to win that game and they didn't.
What part of ALL DECADES escapes you? I would agree that the patr*ts may be able to take the title as the team of the dacde for the 2000's... although the decade isn't over yet. How could the patr*ts EVER be considered the team of ALL DECADES!!!??? Face it... they sucked for most of their existence. You can twist this anyway you wish... but it just won't wash.

Yeah, the Raiders had opportunites to win the game, no doubt, but... if the FUMBLE was left as called, the GAME WAS OVER... and you lose! Correct call my ass... pulling some obscure, bullsh*t rule out of the book that had NEVER been used before, was the league's way of making sure their darling Patriots had a shot of winning... after 9/11. After all, why would they want the NFL's bad boy bullies to win, when America needed the Patriots at such a crucial time in Amercan history? The whole damn thing smells like sh*t.........still. Not to mention that the video taping was going on during that game. They should be known as the Cheaters for all decades.
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Old 06-26-2009, 06:37 PM   #92
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Default Re: Patriots can be king of all eras

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What part of ALL DECADES escapes you? I would agree that the patr*ts may be able to take the title as the team of the dacde for the 2000's... although the decade isn't over yet. How could the patr*ts EVER be considered the team of ALL DECADES!!!??? Face it... they sucked for most of their existence. You can twist this anyway you wish... but it just won't wash.

Yeah, the Raiders had opportunites to win the game, no doubt, but... if the FUMBLE was left as called, the GAME WAS OVER... and you lose! Correct call my ass... pulling some obscure, bullsh*t rule out of the book that had NEVER been used before, was the league's way of making sure their darling Patriots had a shot of winning... after 9/11. After all, why would they want the NFL's bad boy bullies to win, when America needed the Patriots at such a crucial time in Amercan history? The whole damn thing smells like sh*t.........still. Not to mention that the video taping was going on during that game. They should be known as the Cheaters for all decades.
by "NFL bad boy bullies" are you referring to the Oakland Raiders? cause to me, they are about as soft as a mouse fart through silk my friend.

just on a side note, how many Raiders have a rule named after them due to how tough they play the game? i don't know of any. but i know one Steeler who does.

as for your tuck rule debate, cry about it for as long as you want. only Raiders fans care about that anymore. the Raiders do indeed have a nice rich history and they are a beloved franchise by many crazy people who like to dress like Kiss and the Legion of Doom, but as of late, you can't lump them into any catergory except for the "Teams From California Who Suck" catergory. which includes franchises like, the LA Clippers, the Golden State Warriors, the Sacramento Kings, the LA Kings, the LA Sparks, the LA Galaxy, the San Francisco 49ers, and of course the Raiders.

i'm not siding with the Raiders or the Patriots on this point. personally, i think the Patriots are living proof that cheaters never win and even if the Raiders cheated, they couldn't beat the crap out of a diaper. so, forgive me for interjecting my two cents, but aren't we just comparing apples and sucky football teams here?
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Old 06-26-2009, 07:03 PM   #93
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Default Re: Patriots can be king of all eras

At least we aren't talking about Kurt Warner who threw a 100 yd. pick six and fumbled on his last offensive play in SB XLIII. Just think if BB had those stats.
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Old 06-26-2009, 08:40 PM   #94
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Default Re: Patriots can be king of all eras

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What part of ALL DECADES escapes you? I would agree that the patr*ts may be able to take the title as the team of the dacde for the 2000's... although the decade isn't over yet. How could the patr*ts EVER be considered the team of ALL DECADES!!!??? Face it... they sucked for most of their existence. You can twist this anyway you wish... but it just won't wash.

Yeah, the Raiders had opportunites to win the game, no doubt, but... if the FUMBLE was left as called, the GAME WAS OVER... and you lose! Correct call my ass... pulling some obscure, bullsh*t rule out of the book that had NEVER been used before, was the league's way of making sure their darling Patriots had a shot of winning... after 9/11. After all, why would they want the NFL's bad boy bullies to win, when America needed the Patriots at such a crucial time in Amercan history? The whole damn thing smells like sh*t.........still. Not to mention that the video taping was going on during that game. They should be known as the Cheaters for all decades.
Have you ever heard a one-sentence soundbite on the television or radio and come away with one sense of what was being said - and then when you listen to the entire interview have a completely different sense of what the person being interviewed was saying?

To me that is what is going on here. You are pulling two words - "all decades" - out as your soundbite. If all I saw was that, then I would agree with you. But when I go back and read the entire paragraph, I come away with a completely different sense of what the writer is saying.

This column has nothing to do with how bad the Patriots were earlier in their existence - because the writer is not saying "best franchise of all time." The writer is taking a look at the various "best teams of the decade" - which you acknowledge they would be one of if they were to win the Super Bowl next season. That is step one; which would be the first line of the second paragraph in the article: "With three Lombardi Trophies in the 2000s, the Patriots have staked a claim as the NFL’s team of the decade."

Now on to the paragraph's second line: "a fourth Super Bowl and 12 more regular-season victories in 2009 would allow the Patriots to stake their claim as the team for all decades" that includes the infamous words "all decades." The fact that the writer talks about a team of the decade and then in the very next line talks about team of "all decades" tells me he is comparing the various best "team of the decades." Throughout the article the writer talks about what various teams did in a decade. Nowhere does he talk about accomplishments of any franchise over their entire history. That is why I believe that while you are correct - that the Patriots are not one of the best franchises in NFL history - that has nothing to do with this article. So remove that train of thought, because that has nothing to do with what this column is about.

So how could the Patriots "ever be considered the team for all decades?" Well you yourself just said they would be team of the decade for the 2000's. Next step would be to compare each team of the decade with every other team of the decade. Well, there you go right there; that's how they would be considered for "team of all decades." If they were to win again this year then they have four Super Bowls in one decade. That doesn't mean that they are the number one "team for all decades"; it just means that they are entitled to consideration (i.e., "stake a claim") for the team of all decades.

Here's another way to look at it. If a team with a history of losing such as the Saints or Cardinals were to win four or more Super Bowls next decade, then they would probably be considered "team of the decade", right? And since they won that many championships they would then be in consideration for the best "team of decade" team, or "team of all decades" if you will. In other words "best franchise of all time" and "team of all decades" are two entirely different things. "Team of all decades" looks only at that ten year stretch and not the entire history of the franchise.

I will say the choice of wording by the writer is rather questionable. He could have used another phrase to avoid the ambiguity which would have resulted in a clearer definition of the point he was attempting to make. Then again, perhaps he and his editor chose an equivocal wording in order to stir up debate and create more web hits to the column.

- - - - - - - - - -

Edit:

If the games were fixed due to 9/11, wouldn't the Jets or Giants have won that Super Bowl?

So now you're going to say the games in 2001 were fixed because of 9/11? Let me ask you this: if that's what you really believe, then why do you even watch any football at all? Do you also believe the Raiders' losing records are because the NFL doesn't like Al Davis? If the NFL is fixing games, wouldn't they have teams from big markets like the Jets and Bears making more Super Bowl appearances? Wouldn't they have teams that have trouble selling tickets like the Lions in the playoffs the next year in order to spur interest - and profits? Wouldn't they have teams like the Steelers with loyal fan bases that have no trouble selling out missing the playoffs, so another city can get excited about making the playoffs?
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Old 06-27-2009, 07:17 AM   #95
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Default Re: Patriots can be king of all eras

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by "NFL bad boy bullies" are you referring to the Oakland Raiders? cause to me, they are about as soft as a mouse fart through silk my friend.
just on a side note, how many Raiders have a rule named after them due to how tough they play the game? i don't know of any. but i know one Steeler who does.

as for your tuck rule debate, cry about it for as long as you want. only Raiders fans care about that anymore. the Raiders do indeed have a nice rich history and they are a beloved franchise by many crazy people who like to dress like Kiss and the Legion of Doom, but as of late, you can't lump them into any catergory except for the "Teams From California Who Suck" catergory. which includes franchises like, the LA Clippers, the Golden State Warriors, the Sacramento Kings, the LA Kings, the LA Sparks, the LA Galaxy, the San Francisco 49ers, and of course the Raiders.

i'm not siding with the Raiders or the Patriots on this point. personally, i think the Patriots are living proof that cheaters never win and even if the Raiders cheated, they couldn't beat the crap out of a diaper. so, forgive me for interjecting my two cents, but aren't we just comparing apples and sucky football teams here?
You'll get no argument from me on that...... at this point in time. However, if you are old enough to have watched football from the 70's through the early 80's... the Raiders were a feared team to face on the field. I can't think of any team other than the Steelers that actually welcomed playing the Raiders.

I know the Raiders are soft, and they have lost their identity as of late... but that wasn't always the case. Some of the older fans on this forum can attest to what I'm telling you.

As for the rest of your comments about the Raiders...... you're welcome to your opinion... that's what forums are for.
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Old 06-27-2009, 07:50 AM   #96
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Default Re: Patriots can be king of all eras

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Originally Posted by HughC View Post
Have you ever heard a one-sentence soundbite on the television or radio and come away with one sense of what was being said - and then when you listen to the entire interview have a completely different sense of what the person being interviewed was saying?

To me that is what is going on here. You are pulling two words - "all decades" - out as your soundbite. If all I saw was that, then I would agree with you. But when I go back and read the entire paragraph, I come away with a completely different sense of what the writer is saying.

This column has nothing to do with how bad the Patriots were earlier in their existence - because the writer is not saying "best franchise of all time." The writer is taking a look at the various "best teams of the decade" - which you acknowledge they would be one of if they were to win the Super Bowl next season. That is step one; which would be the first line of the second paragraph in the article: "With three Lombardi Trophies in the 2000s, the Patriots have staked a claim as the NFLís team of the decade."

Now on to the paragraph's second line: "a fourth Super Bowl and 12 more regular-season victories in 2009 would allow the Patriots to stake their claim as the team for all decades" that includes the infamous words "all decades." The fact that the writer talks about a team of the decade and then in the very next line talks about team of "all decades" tells me he is comparing the various best "team of the decades." Throughout the article the writer talks about what various teams did in a decade. Nowhere does he talk about accomplishments of any franchise over their entire history. That is why I believe that while you are correct - that the Patriots are not one of the best franchises in NFL history - that has nothing to do with this article. So remove that train of thought, because that has nothing to do with what this column is about.

So how could the Patriots "ever be considered the team for all decades?" Well you yourself just said they would be team of the decade for the 2000's. Next step would be to compare each team of the decade with every other team of the decade. Well, there you go right there; that's how they would be considered for "team of all decades." If they were to win again this year then they have four Super Bowls in one decade. That doesn't mean that they are the number one "team for all decades"; it just means that they are entitled to consideration (i.e., "stake a claim") for the team of all decades.

Here's another way to look at it. If a team with a history of losing such as the Saints or Cardinals were to win four or more Super Bowls next decade, then they would probably be considered "team of the decade", right? And since they won that many championships they would then be in consideration for the best "team of decade" team, or "team of all decades" if you will. In other words "best franchise of all time" and "team of all decades" are two entirely different things. "Team of all decades" looks only at that ten year stretch and not the entire history of the franchise.

I will say the choice of wording by the writer is rather questionable. He could have used another phrase to avoid the ambiguity which would have resulted in a clearer definition of the point he was attempting to make. Then again, perhaps he and his editor chose an equivocal wording in order to stir up debate and create more web hits to the column.

- - - - - - - - - -

Edit:

If the games were fixed due to 9/11, wouldn't the Jets or Giants have won that Super Bowl?

So now you're going to say the games in 2001 were fixed because of 9/11? Let me ask you this: if that's what you really believe, then why do you even watch any football at all? Do you also believe the Raiders' losing records are because the NFL doesn't like Al Davis? If the NFL is fixing games, wouldn't they have teams from big markets like the Jets and Bears making more Super Bowl appearances? Wouldn't they have teams that have trouble selling tickets like the Lions in the playoffs the next year in order to spur interest - and profits? Wouldn't they have teams like the Steelers with loyal fan bases that have no trouble selling out missing the playoffs, so another city can get excited about making the playoffs?

I can buy what your saying in if the writer meant it the way you laid it out. Like you said, if that's how it was meant, he did a poor job of getting that across.

I'll tell you this... I have never been one to buy into the conspiracy crap, BUT... I'm seriously starting to have some doubts. The officiating in the NFL is just horrendous. I'm not going to single out any team or game. Across the board, it just sucks.

As far as the Raiders go, yes, I believe that the league does have a vendetta against Al Davis. Even if it is a righteous vendetta... and I won't disagree entirely that it isn't, it should have no bearing on the outcome of games... the players and fans have nothing to do with what Al Davis does... why should they pay for it? Unfortunately, I can no longer turn a blind eye to what I see happen to the Raiders on a fairly consistent basis.

Some of the most obscure rullings are pulled out of the book against the Raiders... but only when there is the threat that the Raiders might win the game... always at a crucial time in the game. I know that holding goes on in almost every play... but the Raiders' opponents do it blatantly, play after play... and it is rarely called. On the other hand, all a Raider has to do is open his hand and there are yellow flags everywhere. There are just way too many funny, fishy, wacky calls and non-calls against the Raiders to completely dismiss the "vendetta theory" anymore.
I honestly do believe that the Raiders will never get a fair shake from the league (officials) untill Al Davis no longer owns the team.

As a fan of the Raiders for almost 42 years, there is nothing to do but wait it out... and remember that what I see on the field today, isn't the Raiders. I don't know what they are, or who they are, but...... they sure as hell aren't the Raiders. The Raiders wouldn't give a damn about the officials... they never did. They just took the penalties and kicked your ass inspite of them. I hope they come back before my time is up...... I sure would like to see them again.
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Old 06-27-2009, 05:03 PM   #97
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Default Re: Patriots can be king of all eras

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You'll get no argument from me on that...... at this point in time. However, if you are old enough to have watched football from the 70's through the early 80's... the Raiders were a feared team to face on the field. I can't think of any team other than the Steelers that actually welcomed playing the Raiders.

I know the Raiders are soft, and they have lost their identity as of late... but that wasn't always the case. Some of the older fans on this forum can attest to what I'm telling you.

As for the rest of your comments about the Raiders...... you're welcome to your opinion... that's what forums are for.
i will give you this, the Raiders are beating the Steelers in the head-to-head matches over as long as those franchises have been around. AND, the Raiders beat the Steelers the year after we won the Super Bowl. but they also only won one more game that year. not to mention to beat down against the Buccaneers in the Super Bowl.

so, it's a lopsided opinion of the Raiders on my part. but the truth is, i have about 5 or 6 friends in my inner circle of football fans and they are Raiders fans til' death. i give them nothing but respect for loving their team, not losing faith, and most of all, not hopping on the bandwagon like most Patriot fans. i had a woman in Pittsburgh tell me she loved the Patriots over the Steelers and i asked, "why?" she said, "because Tom Brady is hot!" i gagged. all i am saying is, you are loyal to your team and i respect that...just aslong as December 6th comes and goes with the Steelers as the victors. haha!

i've been calling the Raiders the "Sleeper Team of 09" all summer long. i hope they pull it off...and by "it" i mean "a winning record." haha! kidding.
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Old 06-27-2009, 05:51 PM   #98
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Default Re: Patriots can be king of all eras

This is soooo uninteresting.
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Old 06-27-2009, 07:00 PM   #99
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This is soooo uninteresting.
it was clearly interesting enough for you to tell us how UN-interesting it is. but thanks for the zero feedback and stupid comment. greatly appreciated. =)

so, are you a Patriots fan or are you a really big fan of "The Patriot" with Mel Gibson?
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Old 06-27-2009, 07:53 PM   #100
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Default Re: Patriots can be king of all eras

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it was clearly interesting enough for you to tell us how UN-interesting it is. but thanks for the zero feedback and stupid comment. greatly appreciated. =)

so, are you a Patriots fan or are you a really big fan of "The Patriot" with Mel Gibson?
Oh, please don't make me choose!
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