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Old 08-04-2009, 09:14 AM   #1
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Unhappy WWSFD?

I once again come to my Steelers family in the hopes that you can offer some advice that I can pass on to a close friend of mine whose daughter is the subject of this request.

Mandy is in her late 20's and has a son from a prior relationship. She married a man several months ago that she had been dating for almost 2 years and she gave birth to their child a few months back. From almost the get-go, this man has been verbally abusive not only towards her, but to her son. Mandy is a beautiful, intelligent young woman with a zest for life and normally, a good head on her shoulders. This man lived with his mother and stepfather until he and Mandy became serious, and he was raised by a very controlling and manipulative mother. His father and stepmother live on the east coast and he has recently renewed his relationship with them. From what I understand, they are extremely fond of Mandy and the boys. He no longer has a relationship with his mother and stepfather who live here in the area because the woman is a nutcase. Before they were married, Ron became very angry with Mandy's son to the point of rage which resulted in him throwing a metal object at the child, hitting him in the arm and leaving a very large, ugly bruise. My friend confronted Ron that night after her grandson told her what happened and he claimed that the object slipped out of his hand as he was moving his arms when he was screaming at the child. Of course she didn't believe him but because Mandy loves this guy for whatever reason and pleaded with her not to press the issue, she didn't but vowed to keep her eye on the situation.

The next morning, Jack went to school and as his arm was really bothering him, his teacher noticed him rubbing his arm several times and took him aside to inquire. Jack told her what had happened and the teacher immediately sent him down to the school nurse who was horrified and immediately notified the Vice Principal who alerted Children & Youth Services, who promptly contacted Mandy. They came out to the house to talk to Jack with both Mandy and Ron present and as Ron was very convincing that the incident was an "accident" (much to Jack's protests to the CYS caseworker), the incident was put on the back burner. Several weeks later, the local police contacted Mandy and told her that CYS had decided to pursue the issue and Ron was charged with "simple assault". He had a hearing last month and was ordered to attend 16 anger management classes, which he feels are "stupid".

The heated arguments have been continuing on a regular basis and there have been several times where Ron has left for the entire night and supposedly goes to his fire hall which is quite a distance away from where they live. Last week, he screamed at both Mandy and Jack that they are "lazy, worthless F'ers". No matter what he does, Mandy takes him back after they have "a talk". Last night, Mandy told my friend that she and Ron had yet another huge fight (which Ron again started) and they went outside on their back deck. Ron became so enraged that he knocked Mandy's glass of milk against the wall and told her that the next time, it would be her face against the wall. Jack is bipolar and has had a really hard time adjusting to life with Ron. He has told his Mom that he doesn't want him in his life but it falls on deaf ears. My friend had been babysitting last night and when Mandy and Ron got home from their fire hall meeting, she could tell they had been fighting . . again. Mandy took her on the deck and told her that she and Ron fought the entire time they were gone and that he continued to put her down. My friend again reiterated to Mandy that she fears for her and the boys and Mandy told her that Ron "doesn't have the balls" to hit her. I just talked to my friend a little while ago and all is well once again.

My friend is beside herself with concern and though she has told Mandy many times that she needs to get away from this guy before something really bad happens, Mandy always makes excuses for his behaviors and takes him back - only for the same thing to happen a day or two later. This guy does not help with his infant son at all and chastizes Mandy for just about everything she does. She isn't permitted to have friends, he doesn't want her working, he won't put her name on his accounts (though she has contributed greatly to the household income) - he wants total control of her and everything she does. Legally, there isn't a damned thing my friend can do as Mandy is well over the age of majority.

I would appreciate any and all advice as to your thoughts in this matter. Thank you all in advance.
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Old 08-04-2009, 09:37 AM   #2
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Default Re: WWSFD?

HTG...............

Get literature on domestic abuse for her, and passive/aggessive manipulative behaviors.

If you or your friend know someone who's been in this situation, or a counselor who works it, get them to talk to her. You should at least try that!

This man is in his beginning stages of isolating her for total dominance and control. Once isolated she will be absolutely manipulated and a cycle will begin that seldom resolves itself.

Your friend must take some sort of action now, despite Mandy's objections. An intervention with people who can show the signs to her more clearly is in order. It might even take an ambush like with those who do the drug/alcohol interventions........... but this kind of a dominant personality tends to verbally and physically berate and abuse women (especially since he has that history of the mother who will be his mental target on any woman in his life).

I do have experience in counseling victims on this.

I've sent you a PM.

Don't delay for this young woman's sake.

I'll keep her and her mother in my prayers!
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Old 08-04-2009, 09:53 AM   #3
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Default Re: WWSFD?

Wow....

I have to tell you that Mandy needs to take action NOW. This guys 1) denial of wrongdoing by blaming others...3) poo-pooing the anger management classes...3) and most importantly, his trivializing his abuse towards a child is ALARMING.

It might be hard to believe...but he probably has a "side" that he shows 90% of the time to his friends and family that might make him seem like a nice..even redeemable person. Thats the side that Mandy sees and "choices" to believe is the "real" man she loves.

The truth is...the angry man that comes out of him is part and parcel of the whole man. They are not seperateable. Until he comes to a serious self realization of who he is and is willing to take accountability for his abusive nature, he is a danger to Mandy and the child....period.

Mandy needs to wake this guy up..now!!! Only two things are going to make him accountable.

1) She needs to set up a plan for him to get help...and LEAVE until he fulfills ALL reguirements

2) She needs to bring someone into the picture who can face dwon this idiot and make him accountable. This has to be one of two people...someone he trusts and admires (pastor...priest...mentor) or someone that he fears..(her big brother...a family friend) who can sit down with him and say..."I am going to be asking her on a regualr basis how you are treating her...and I am going to talk with you afterwards".

My experience is that accountability is MUCH more effective than anything else. Until he is held accountable and sees his abuse from the eyes of someone else, he WILL NOT STOP!!! IT WILL GET WORSE!!!

I will promise you that we here in the forum will pray for your friend and her child...and pray for her husband that he might be wise enough to seek help!!!
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Old 08-04-2009, 10:04 AM   #4
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Default Re: WWSFD?

I remember hearing/reading somewhere that the victims tend to stay in those relationships out of fear for themselves and their loved ones (in this case Jack).

Fear is not of God. She needs to come against it. I don't know if she's a Godly woman but this is what fear equals:

F = False
E = Evidence
A = Appearing
R = Real

Let's face it, this Ron character seems to have the mental capacity that he could come after them if they leave. She'd have no problem having a case against him and gaining custody of their child and in turn protecting both Jack and the little one.

She may need to take a "vacation" to get away from the situation in order to see it for what it is. She needs to get out.

I will put them in my prayers!
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Old 08-04-2009, 10:30 AM   #5
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Default Re: WWSFD?

The bottom line is this: These things always end up with one person leaving, or someone getting seriously hurt and/or killed. So she either needs to leave him, or she will either end up getting hurt or hurting him (in self defense) or worse...
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Old 08-04-2009, 10:32 AM   #6
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Default Re: WWSFD?

She needs to leave him. NOW! There is no reasoning with or talking to a crazy bastard.

The only thing she is going to do is make her son hate her also, for being so stupid for taking him back and thus putting both Mandy and Jack through more nonsense from this worthless asshole, just like my father is about my grandma taking my grandpa back.

This bum is not worth being in ether of their lives. He needs to crawl back under his rock and she'd be foolish not to send him packing now.

Not to mention the mental abuse they have already suffered and now the physical abuse that is starting to occur. She needs to leave, she needs to get rid of that nonsense of loving someone who doesn't treat her or her son well.

And she needs to do it now.

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Old 08-04-2009, 10:36 AM   #7
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Default Re: WWSFD?

This is a VERY bad situation. And it WILL get worse. He does "have the balls" to hurt her, and he eventually will hurt her. He will also hurt Jack eventually, but will claim that it was an accident...
My advice is harsh, but probably the only solution---tell her to get as far away from him as possible.
Of course that is easier said than done because she "loves" him... it is pretty classic---I'm guessing that she has self-esteem issues and feels that she "will never find anyone else..."

I'm a surgeon, not a counselor. But she needs one. Now.
Tell her that she needs to start preparing for this...open her own bank account, etc to be able to make the break
But before any of that can happen she needs to Understand that there IS a problem and that it is NOT going to go away
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Old 08-04-2009, 11:40 AM   #8
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lousiville slugger and aim for the cheap seats
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Old 08-04-2009, 11:54 AM   #9
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Default Re: WWSFD?

HTG, that story is very disconcerting, and although I know you have a personal connection, it's seems like a common tale of abuse and dominant behavior.

The wife knows there is a problem, but out of fear or the deep love she feels (maybe being alone), she is unable to accept the problem (denial) for what it really is and hopes things will just work itself out...which it won't. Consistently forgiving him, is imo almost enabling his behavior. As said before, there are no consequences for him, so he will just keep repeating the same pattern of abuse.

It all starts with him really. She and/or child services can force him into counciling, but if he isn't willing to admit he has a problem, all the treatment and anger management classes he takes won't make one bit of a difference. He will just be meeting a requirement.

At the very least she could say she tried, and he was not willing to change (recognize his issues), but I think it will take someone she respects to convince her to do something...anything at this point to confront him because it can only get uglier if nothing happens.
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Old 08-04-2009, 12:45 PM   #10
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Default Re: WWSFD?

You and I have already discussed this at length, so you know where I stand. Most everyone here has the same sentiment that I do - she needs to dump the bastard, take her kid and get as far away from him as she can. As much as she wants it to, the situation will NOT get any better. It will continue to get worse until something very, very bad happens to her and/or her son, so long as she keeps enabling him. If she won't leave him for herself, she needs to do it for Jack, because so long as she keeps enabling his behavior by constantly taking him back, he is going to harbor more and more resentment toward her as he gets older, and their relationship could be irreparably damaged...not to mention that his school performance could be negatively affected. Does she really want to risk that just to stay married? I have seen this fish before with a member of my own family who had been abusive - both verbally and physically - to every woman he'd been with until recently. Those women ended up leaving him before long, and they were better off for it. Mandy needs to do the same.
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