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Old 08-04-2009, 09:20 PM   #1
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Default Yeah we don't need Healthcare Reform

You neo cons are right:


France best, US worst in preventable death ranking

By Will Dunham

WASHINGTON, Jan 8 (Reuters) - France, Japan and Australia rated best and the United States worst in new rankings focusing on preventable deaths due to treatable conditions in 19 leading industrialized nations, researchers said on Tuesday.

If the U.S. health care system performed as well as those of those top three countries, there would be 101,000 fewer deaths in the United States per year, according to researchers writing in the journal Health Affairs.

Researchers Ellen Nolte and Martin McKee of the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine tracked deaths that they deemed could have been prevented by access to timely and effective health care, and ranked nations on how they did.

They called such deaths an important way to gauge the performance of a country's health care system.

Nolte said the large number of Americans who lack any type of health insurance -- about 47 million people in a country of about 300 million, according to U.S. government estimates -- probably was a key factor in the poor showing of the United States compared to other industrialized nations in the study.

"I wouldn't say it (the last-place ranking) is a condemnation, because I think health care in the U.S. is pretty good if you have access. But if you don't, I think that's the main problem, isn't it?" Nolte said in a telephone interview.

In establishing their rankings, the researchers considered deaths before age 75 from numerous causes, including heart disease, stroke, certain cancers, diabetes, certain bacterial infections and complications of common surgical procedures.

Such deaths accounted for 23 percent of overall deaths in men and 32 percent of deaths in women, the researchers said.

France did best -- with 64.8 deaths deemed preventable by timely and effective health care per 100,000 people, in the study period of 2002 and 2003. Japan had 71.2 and Australia had 71.3 such deaths per 100,000 people. The United States had 109.7 such deaths per 100,000 people, the researchers said.

After the top three, Spain was fourth best, followed in order by Italy, Canada, Norway, the Netherlands, Sweden, Greece, Austria, Germany, Finland, New Zealand, Denmark, Britain, Ireland and Portugal, with the United States last.


The researchers compared these rankings with rankings for the same 19 countries covering the period of 1997 and 1998. France and Japan also were first and second in those rankings, while the United States was 15th, meaning it fell four places in the latest rankings.

All the countries made progress in reducing preventable deaths from these earlier rankings, the researchers said. These types of deaths dropped by an average of 16 percent for the nations in the study, but the U.S. decline was only 4 percent.

The research was backed by the Commonwealth Fund, a private New York-based health policy foundation.

"It is startling to see the U.S. falling even farther behind on this crucial indicator of health system performance," Commonwealth Fund Senior Vice President Cathy Schoen said.

"The fact that other countries are reducing these preventable deaths more rapidly, yet spending far less, indicates that policy, goals and efforts to improve health systems make a difference," Schoen added in a statement.

(Editing by Cynthia Osterman)

&*$% FRANCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Better than us!
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Old 08-04-2009, 09:23 PM   #2

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Default Re: Yeah we don't need Healthcare Reform

The French are afraid of everything, even death?

Makes sense to me.
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Old 08-04-2009, 09:31 PM   #3
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Old 08-04-2009, 09:34 PM   #4
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Default Re: Yeah we don't need Healthcare Reform

We absolutely need health care reform. But the current proposals in Congress suck donkey balls.
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Old 08-05-2009, 12:06 AM   #5
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Default Re: Yeah we don't need Healthcare Reform

Originally Posted by Stlrs4Life View Post
London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine
I was unaware that Great Britain, France or the United States were in tropical or subtropical regions. What's next a study that smoking is good for you from an arctic medical school?
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Old 08-05-2009, 12:17 AM   #6
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Default Re: Yeah we don't need Healthcare Reform

I didn't know being against Obama's version of "healthcare reform" meant that we don't need it.

Come on, dude. There's no question that the system needs reformed. A full government takeover of the system is NOT the answer, however. A public-private partnership is, IMO, the way to go. People can still purchase their own plans or keep the insurance that their employers offer, while having the public option available for those who are unable to afford or aren't eligible for health benefits through their employers. Bottom line - I should NOT have to be forced to take the government plan if I don't want to, especially if it's better than anything the government has to offer.

Oh and BTW, when you have a LOT of people from those countries with "better" health care systems coming to the U.S. to have their medical procedures done, I think that's a pretty good indicator that our health care does not suck.
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Old 08-05-2009, 07:46 AM   #7
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Default Re: Yeah we don't need Healthcare Reform

No doubt the system is broke. But is the answer some half-assed bill no one has read being snuck in at the last minute?


Sorry, this dog don't hunt. As Godfather said, the current proposal sucks Bengals Butt...

Instead, the government should take time. Go slow. Examine ALL the options. Make a wise and sound plan, go slowly, and do it right. Dole/Daschle have a semi-workable proposal. I'm sure there are other, much more sensible plans that can be implemented. The POS in congress will take a good thing with lots of problems and make it a bad thing with nothing BUT problems.
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Old 08-05-2009, 08:16 AM   #8
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Old 08-05-2009, 12:12 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by KeiselPower99 View Post
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Old 08-05-2009, 12:22 PM   #10
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Default Re: Yeah we don't need Healthcare Reform

So in France, when someone finally gets around to actually being ALLOWED to see the doctor and actually is ALLOWED to have the surgery performed that they were waiting for in some cases for years, they tend to live.

Total Propagda BULLLSHIT Post trying to convince the US That having the Government Take Over our Current system is the way to go. Its total nonsense.

Allow Insurance companies to compete from state to state and TORT REFORM will cause Premiums to go down all Dropping the cost of Health Care. But the Fcking Lawyers in Washington don't want any kind of Tort Reform. Nope...they suck the system dry with their lawsuits upon lawsuits while we pay $500 bucks for an asperin in the Emergency Room.
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