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Old 08-12-2009, 12:24 PM   #51
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Default Re: Browns | Quarterback battle remains open

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Originally Posted by xfl2001fan View Post
Having a 100M QB on this team would be ridiculously stupid right now.
You make no sense.
Ben's rookie salary in 2004 was for $22M.


He didn't get the big payday till 2008 after he won a bunch of playoff games and a SB.

Try again.
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Old 08-12-2009, 12:34 PM   #52
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Default Re: Browns | Quarterback battle remains open

Yes, I've addressed that...it's having it both ways, but there is no mental gymnastic move to silly for these guys to make in their minds in order to continue this RIDICULOUS line of "logic".

Had Ben been drafted by the Browns, they would have been Super Bowl contenders by '07...
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Old 08-12-2009, 12:43 PM   #53
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Default Re: Browns | Quarterback battle remains open

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You make no sense.
Ben's rookie salary in 2004 was for $22M.


He didn't get the big payday till 2008 after he won a bunch of playoff games and a SB.

Try again.
I explained both scenarios...drafting him then...and having him now.

Drafting him then does no good because he has nothing to grow under. We had no recievers (and didn't know that we'd be getting BE the next season.) We had a terrible offensive line...no defense worth speaking of. No running game. His salary would have been bigger had the Browns drafted him because he would have been drafted at #3 and got paid like a #3 (though more than KW2 because he's a QB and KW2 was a TE.) If we draft him (instead of KW2), Garcia get's hurt, Holcomb get's benched (he did that a lot) and then Ben plays. We ruin Ben.

Are you still with me?

For some who think we'd like to have him now...it does us no good to have him now. We have a terrible defense, not much fo a ground game and huge question marks at the WR/TE spot. His 100M Salary (now) would be a problem for us because we wouldn't have a team built around him. Instead of having a defense that keeps games close (which allows him to take chances)...he has to take on a gunslinger mentality. That won't work, though...because the only legitimately scary WR on our roster (as far as physical skills go) suffers from a bad case of the drops. We ruin Ben.

Are we all on the same page now?

Either way, Ben does this team no good.

I don't know that MANKOK is the answer to our woes...but I like how they are going about things (generally speaking.) They are bringing in a hard-nosed disciplined system. They are trying to build from the inside out (lines first). They are looking for intelligent players who won't make mistakes and won't miss tackles. They're system is predicated in creating a true AFCN team. Whether or not they can put their theories/ideologies into a real product on the football field has yet to be determined. But at least they're taking us a step in the right direction. I don't agree with everything they've done to this point...but at least they're not Butch Davis. Maybe you all remember him. He was our guy back then. He was our "GM" and our HC.
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Old 08-12-2009, 12:46 PM   #54
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Default Re: Browns | Quarterback battle remains open

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Had Ben been drafted by the Browns, they would have been Super Bowl contenders by '07...
I'm thankful they didn't!
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Old 08-12-2009, 12:50 PM   #55
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Default Re: Browns | Quarterback battle remains open

Amazing...I mean, I'm literally shaking my head in utter amazement here.

THIS is what happens to a fan base that gets hit in the head by losing year after year....
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Old 08-12-2009, 01:00 PM   #56
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Default Re: Browns | Quarterback battle remains open

I bet Mankok dumps both DA and Quinn next year and picks a QB #1.

ha ha
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Old 08-12-2009, 01:06 PM   #57
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Default Re: Browns | Quarterback battle remains open

So you think that two guys (Coleman/Andruzzi) were an answer? Who was Ben throwing to in 05? Edwards? How'd that year work out for him?

Coleman/Andruzzi were signed by Cleveland...but they weren't kept for long. Coleman's 2 year contract was never re-upped and Andruzzi was let go before he could finish his contract. They weren't the answer on to our line woes...because if they were, they'd still have a place on this team.

If we're allowed to use hindsight...they didn't work out...so the Browns would have had to do something different in 05 (had we drafted Ben in 04) to fix our line woes. Under the premise of no hindsight (meaning, not knowing what the Browns were going to do in 05), Ben still isn't the answer to our problems on a team riddled with more holes than a 5' x 5' slice of Baby Swiss.

Amazing...I mean, I'm literally shaking my head in utter amazement here.

THIS is what happens to a fan base that doesn't see clearly how low the Browns have sunk. THIS is what happens to a fan base that has been blessed by great ownership, coaching, scouting and drafting.

Since we're playing all hypothetical here:
Now, if the Browns had good ownership (which we don't) good scouting (which we haven't had) good coaching (that's been missing too) and good drafting (also missing from this equation) we might not be in this spot to begin with. That's what it would take for this team to draft and utilize a player with Ben's talents.

We certainly didn't have any of that in place in 04/05/06/07/08. Ownership is still terrible...so all that is left to see is whether or not we have good scouting/coaching/drafting. That takes time.
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Old 08-12-2009, 01:43 PM   #58
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Default Re: Browns | Quarterback battle remains open

I'm not gonna keep doing this too much longer because it's literally retarded...

The Browns DRAFTED a QB to sit for a year the NEXT YEAR. QB WAS ON THEIR RADAR...yeah, it was Charlie Frye, and he didn't pan out, but he just wasn't NFL material...Ben was and is...big difference.

The addition of lineman isn't so much about who they were as it is about the fact that the line was addressed at all. They were working towards a solid plan.

Does Ben have a rough '05? You betcha! But he's a tough kid and a gamer, and the Browns were already working towards making some key additions that came to fruition in '07. Had BEN been there, they'd have seen more success in '06, and instead of depending on a career back-up caliber QB in '07, they'd have had a legit big time NFL leader under center who could navigate them deep into the playoffs.

Did the Browns ruin Tim Couch? Yes...but that was apples, and dese here are oranges. They wouldn't have done it twice...

It's just sad to see such a once-proud fan base so mired in the stench of failure that they develop this weird inferiority complex which clouds judgment so dramatically...

It's the little kid taking his ball and going home syndrome: "No! (stomping foot) We DON'T want your All-Pro two-time super bowl winning QB, and that's final!"
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Old 08-12-2009, 02:11 PM   #59
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Default Re: Browns | Quarterback battle remains open

I wouldn't want to see the All-Pro, two-time super bowl winning QB ruined. If I had a team around him that would keep him alive (guys who could catch, guys who could run...players who could tackle/cover on the other side of the ball) then it'd be different. We need so much more than just one QB...no matter how good he is.

What would Ben have done for us last season? An improvement on 4-12? With who catching the ball? With who running the ball? In Pittsburgh he's got Holmes/Ward who are more than solid receivers. We had a busted Edwards, a busted Stallworth, no Joe J...yeah, I'm sure he'd be great on that team.

We had some lucky breaks two seasons ago but we weren't as good as our 10-6 record would indicate. I believe we're better than teh 4-12 stinkfest we were last season...but not by a whole lot.

Give me a QB when the team is ready to have a QB. When there's a team in place.
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Old 08-12-2009, 02:34 PM   #60
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Default Re: Browns | Quarterback battle remains open

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Originally Posted by revefsreleets View Post
Amazing...I mean, I'm literally shaking my head in utter amazement here.

THIS is what happens to a fan base that gets hit in the head by losing year after year....
i don't know why the steelers drafted terry bradshaw....i mean they sucked for 40 years and had no receivers....
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