New Lies for Old

[Vincent]

Originally Posted by MasterOfPuppets

where would social security be now had the privatization proposal been enacted ?

http://www.rationalrevolution.net/ar...urity_lies.htm

http://www.harpers.org/archive/2009/01/hbc-90004178

http://thinkprogress.org/2009/01/05/...ccomplishment/

We have a different view of the world. I prefer freedom to do as I please. I earn. That is my money. I don't believe it should be confiscated into a socialist Ponzi scheme on a vague and disingenuous promise that "itt'll be there for ya" someday. I am absolutely certain I would have seen a greater return had I used those stolen dollars as I would have chosen.

I take no issue with those that choose to give their money to the gubmint. I would like have the choice to not participate. You people are for "choice", aren't you?

[MasterOfPuppets]

Originally Posted by Vincent

We have a different view of the world. I prefer freedom to do as I please. I earn. That is my money. I don't believe it should be confiscated into a socialist Ponzi scheme on a vague and disingenuous promise that "itt'll be there for ya" someday. I am absolutely certain I would have seen a greater return had I used those stolen dollars as I would have chosen.

I take no issue with those that choose to give their money to the gubmint. I would like have the choice to not participate. You people are for "choice", aren't you?

oh i agree considering by the time some of reach retirement age ,the only thing in that social security box will be nothing but IOU's. we won't see a penny of the money they've been taking from us thanks to the idiots we elect. ... isn't it ironic how the government makes laws to govern the citizens, but yet its the citizens who should be making laws to govern the government. we steal from them we pay a penalty...they steal from us and they're not held accountable....
but here's the thing...if every citizen was givin a million dollars say at age 21 ,and STRONGLY advised to make arrangements with a portion of the money for thier retirement years, be it by saving or investing. i bet a large percentage of the people would be flat ass broke without a penny of that million before they hit 50, and the taxpayers would end up supporting them anyway in thier golden years.

[steelreserve]

Originally Posted by MasterOfPuppets

oh i agree considering by the time some of reach retirement age ,the only thing in that social security box will be nothing but IOU's. we won't see a penny of the money they've been taking from us thanks to the idiots we elect. ... isn't it ironic how the government makes laws to govern the citizens, but yet its the citizens who should be making laws to govern the government. we steal from them we pay a penalty...they steal from us and they're not held accountable....
but here's the thing...if every citizen was givin a million dollars say at age 21 ,and STRONGLY advised to make arrangements with a portion of the money for thier retirement years, be it by saving or investing. i bet a large percentage of the people would be flat ass broke without a penny of that million before they hit 50, and the taxpayers would end up supporting them anyway in thier golden years.

They tried to do something like this in the Baltic states after the breakup of the Soviet Union -- once communism ended, instead of just giving everyone the deed to the state-owned house they lived in, they gave them the equivalent amount of cash. Some people just said OK, we'll use it to buy the house. Others spent the money on all kinds of other things, and as you can guess, it didn't work out so well for them. So they had protests demanding help, and wouldn't you know it, most of them ended up in housing paid for by the government (although they didn't actually own them).

heh ... I once knew some girl in this country who came from a pretty poor family, but inherited about a quarter-million dollars when she was about 22 or 23 years old. Quit her job, bought one brand-new SUV, then bought another brand-new SUV. Rented a house by herself for a couple grand a month, and threw big house parties every couple days with hella coke and hella weed.

After about six months, she had to sell the first SUV to pay the rent; after about eight months the second one got repossessed and she was getting evicted, so of course she used the last of the money to throw a "we're getting evicted" party and trash the place. I don't know what she's doing now, but it probably involves selling weed.

Seems like about par for the course if you handed out that kind of cash and left people to their own devices. Although if you gave it to everybody at once, it'd be pretty fun to watch.

[MasterOfPuppets]

Originally Posted by steelreserve

They tried to do something like this in the Baltic states after the breakup of the Soviet Union -- once communism ended, instead of just giving everyone the deed to the state-owned house they lived in, they gave them the equivalent amount of cash. Some people just said OK, we'll use it to buy the house. Others spent the money on all kinds of other things, and as you can guess, it didn't work out so well for them. So they had protests demanding help, and wouldn't you know it, most of them ended up in housing paid for by the government (although they didn't actually own them).

heh ... I once knew some girl in this country who came from a pretty poor family, but inherited about a quarter-million dollars when she was about 22 or 23 years old. Quit her job, bought one brand-new SUV, then bought another brand-new SUV. Rented a house by herself for a couple grand a month, and threw big house parties every couple days with hella coke and hella weed.

After about six months, she had to sell the first SUV to pay the rent; after about eight months the second one got repossessed and she was getting evicted, so of course she used the last of the money to throw a "we're getting evicted" party and trash the place. I don't know what she's doing now, but it probably involves selling weed.

Seems like about par for the course if you handed out that kind of cash and left people to their own devices. Although if you gave it to everybody at once, it'd be pretty fun to watch.

well thats just my point. lets just say they stopped taking it out of everyones check. do you seriously think people are responcible enough to plan that far ahead ??? hell no... most people don't even know what budget means. i guarantee if most people who have insurance through companies, if they were offered the cash equivalent on thier checks instead of the insurance.. they'd roll the dice and take the cash instead of the security... most people are all about today, not the future. ultimately in the end you'll ALWAYS end up supporting others, its just a matter of the name they assign to it on your deductions.so call it fica or fed tax, social security or welfare.....it'll always be coming out of your check. they can take 40 million off of the social security and add 40 million to welfare..is it going to make a difference?

[hindes204]

Originally Posted by MasterOfPuppets

well thats just my point. lets just say they stopped taking it out of everyones check. do you seriously think people are responcible enough to plan that far ahead ??? hell no... most people don't even know what budget means. i guarantee if most people who have insurance through companies, if they were offered the cash equivalent on thier checks instead of the insurance.. they'd roll the dice and take the cash instead of the security... most people are all about today, not the future. ultimately in the end you'll ALWAYS end up supporting others, its just a matter of the name they assign to it on your deductions.so call it fica or fed tax, social security or welfare.....it'll always be coming out of your check.

and that right there is the difference between me and you....its MY money, i should be able to do whatever the hell i want with it.

You say people arent responsible enough to manage the money they make, so what solution to you propose...to let the uber-resposible government tell me how and on what i should be spending my hard earned money on....im sorry...but F THAT

[MasterOfPuppets]

Originally Posted by hindes204

and that right there is the difference between me and you....its MY money, i should be able to do whatever the hell i want with it.

You say people arent responsible enough to manage the money they make, so what solution to you propose...to let the uber-resposible government tell me how and on what i should be spending my hard earned money on....im sorry...but F THAT

hey i'm with ya... i'm just pointing out that what would happen if they stopped taking the percenting for social security out of your check, would just end up in federal tax, because of the people who DIDN'T plan ahead, would just end up on other government aid programs that still are funded through your tax dollars...only now there's gonna be a HUGE increase in people getting that aid. so ultimately its still going to come out of your check, just under a different name. did you read the example steelreserve posted ? is there a solution for lazy irresponcible people ? is there a solution for crooked politicians ? do you got a say in the government handing your tax dollars to other countries ? that pisses me off far more than my money going to aid american citizens.

[Godfather]

Originally Posted by Vincent

So making reference to the donkey's sordid record of public trust is just as bad as donkey behavior?

I think his issue was posting things that aren't true, which applies to some of the items in your chain e-mail.

And you can't legitimately claim to be making reference to the donkeys' record if you accuse them of things that didn't happen or that had to be bipartisan (like the 1983 change which happened when the elephants had the Senate).

[Vincent]

Originally Posted by Godfather

I think his issue was posting things that aren't true, which applies to some of the items in your chain e-mail.

And you can't legitimately claim to be making reference to the donkeys' record if you accuse them of things that didn't happen or that had to be bipartisan (like the 1983 change which happened when the elephants had the Senate).

What he wrote was taking issue with me calling FDR the embodiment of evil. I stand by that statement.

You're right on 83. "In 1983 the donkey congress “introduced” us to “Soshacurity” taxation. Initially retirees were taxed on 50% of their benefits. Yes, Dutch signed it into law because he didn’t have the votes to sustain a veto." That was the only one I didn't look up.

Chain email? Yes, I received an email that seemed to be a lot of hype. So I thought back on what I remembered and looked up the stuff that preceded my time. In doing so I noted the patterns in the selling of SS, the Great Society and the war on poverty (both of which I lived through), and the several runs on national health care. And that was the point of the post. Aside from an error on my part on 83, I think the donkey's record is intact.

[tony hipchest]

we really need a political right wing extremist propoganda forum.

i once wondered what it would be like if 5 or 6 ravenfans constantly went to the "nfl forum" and posted hundereds of "pro ravens/steelers suck" articles.

then i went to the "locker room" and found out.



"fdr is da debil...."

[MasterOfPuppets]

Originally Posted by tony hipchest

we really need a political right wing extremist propoganda forum.

i once wondered what it would be like if 5 or 6 ravenfans constantly went to the "nfl forum" and posted hundereds of "pro ravens/steelers suck" articles.

then i went to the "locker room" and found out.



"fdr is da debil...."

or better yet, seahawk and cardinal fans whining about the refs ....the standard rebuttle would be...you lost ,get over it whiners... ...but..but his birth certificate...