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Old 09-17-2009, 11:07 AM   #1
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Default Um...Doublespeak Much? Less Defense is MORE Defense?

This is 100% a sop to Russia, and it's an insult to US citizens collective intelligence to cloak this decision as being based upon "threats from Iran". Even more offensive to try and and say that by NOT setting up missile defense bases, Europe will be safer from missiles. Very Orwellian, there, Obama...

There are a LOT of problems here, and only one plus that I can see. First, the bad:

-This is a concession to Russia, plain and simple. Obama lacks the will to defy Putin.
-These countries WANTED these bases, so we let Poland and Czechoslovakia down in order to placate Russia.
-We weakened ourselves and our allies, and further prop up an increasingly hostile (yet still largely militarily stymied) Russia, AGAIN adding to the mirage that they are once again our military equal, to our own great detriment.


The only possible upside from this is that by laying down and playing possum to Putin, MAYBE we get them to back off on their nuclear know-how aid to Iran a little bit...and the only way THAT happens is if a secret deal was cut. If it was, we still screwed two valuable allies to do it (not to mention all the countries around them who would also be protected under this shield), and if it wasn't, we gave up a lot for nothing.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090917/...issile_defense

Obama scraps Bush's European missile defense plan
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Old 09-17-2009, 12:04 PM   #2
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Default Re: Um...Doublespeak Much? Less Defense is MORE Defense?

Before he took office wasn't there a reference to how the Muslims would destroy our country from the inside out?

Well, looks like we've gone from baby steps to leaps and bounds!
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Old 09-17-2009, 12:17 PM   #3
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Default Re: Um...Doublespeak Much? Less Defense is MORE Defense?

Its the same way of thinking. Spend more to get out of debt.

Remember this is the same guy that bent over and grabbed ankles for the Saudi King.




Wait........wait............wait for it..............



Bu...bu....bu....Bush
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Old 09-17-2009, 12:19 PM   #4
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Default Re: Um...Doublespeak Much? Less Defense is MORE Defense?

This is kind of tough for him...while they love him in Europe because he's more than willing to trash his own country in speeches, this hits home a little bit...I'll be curious over the next few days and weeks to see what the rest of Europe has to say about this. At first glance, this looks like Russia is the ONLY winner from this move...
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Old 09-17-2009, 02:01 PM   #5
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Default Re: Um...Doublespeak Much? Less Defense is MORE Defense?

This is definitely a win/win situation for Russia. Not only is the missile defense shield taken down, but they can also withhold oil and natural gas shipments to Europe anytime they want. Way to let the Russians hold all the cards
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Old 09-17-2009, 02:24 PM   #6
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Default Re: Um...Doublespeak Much? Less Defense is MORE Defense?

We are validating a military that is only a mere shadow of it's former self, and giving Russia all kinds of International street cred that is unearned...this is just all kinds of a bad idea, and another example of amateur hour in the WH.

The left also can never admit Obama was wrong here, because it validates GWB, and they'd rather die than ever say Bush did anything right. Just look at how every liberal on the board ignores outright the fact that Obama adopted a ton of "failed Bush policies"...I STILL don't think a single D on this board has to this day ever actually answered that challenge.

I just hope we got SOMETHING for this...a missile shield to contain Russia could have been really useful down the road...
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Old 09-18-2009, 12:14 AM   #7
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Default Re: Um...Doublespeak Much? Less Defense is MORE Defense?

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Originally Posted by revefsreleets View Post
We are validating a military that is only a mere shadow of it's former self, and giving Russia all kinds of International street cred that is unearned...this is just all kinds of a bad idea, and another example of amateur hour in the WH.

The left also can never admit Obama was wrong here, because it validates GWB, and they'd rather die than ever say Bush did anything right. Just look at how every liberal on the board ignores outright the fact that Obama adopted a ton of "failed Bush policies"...I STILL don't think a single D on this board has to this day ever actually answered that challenge.

I just hope we got SOMETHING for this...a missile shield to contain Russia could have been really useful down the road...
If their military is a mere shadow of itself, why are missile defense systems necessary? Also, how is building an elaborate missile defense system to protect Europe from the big bad Russian missiles not a validation of the Russian military? Talk about double speak.....
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Old 09-18-2009, 06:21 AM   #8
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Default Re: Um...Doublespeak Much? Less Defense is MORE Defense?

The missile defense shield is to protect Europe from Russian missiles and also Iranian missiles. Yes, the Russian military is a shadow of its former self, but they still have lots and lots of missiles. Even if only half of them worked, that is more than enough. If Russia was to make a move, first strike would be with missiles to make sure nobody could counterattack. Now Iran trying to gain nukes is a scary flipping thing. Iranian president Ahmanidiot or however you spell his name is a threat and wouldn't mind wiping out some people in Europe.
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Old 09-18-2009, 06:50 AM   #9
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Default Re: Um...Doublespeak Much? Less Defense is MORE Defense?

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The missile defense shield is to protect Europe from Russian missiles and also Iranian missiles. Yes, the Russian military is a shadow of its former self, but they still have lots and lots of missiles. Even if only half of them worked, that is more than enough. If Russia was to make a move, first strike would be with missiles to make sure nobody could counterattack. Now Iran trying to gain nukes is a scary flipping thing. Iranian president Ahmanidiot or however you spell his name is a threat and wouldn't mind wiping out some people in Europe.
I'm not denying that at all, but in any event, no matter how you choose to play it, you're validating the Russian military. Also if the Russian military is a shadow of itself a first strike on Europe isn't going to prevent the guaranteed American missile response that will ensue and that shadow of a military would be left in shambles by the American military juggernaut. That would be the day we reveal our real military toys. You know, the things people refer to as UFO's out in the Nevada desert? Yeah, I dare Russia to be so stupid. We'd blast them into 100 nation states and they know it. Edit: It's also worth stating that Ahmadinejad is a figure head with absolutely no power over the Iranian military. That's not to say that the people who do have power over their military(The Ayatollah, The Guardian Counsil, and The Assembly of Experts) are any better though.
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Old 09-18-2009, 11:50 AM   #10
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Default Re: Um...Doublespeak Much? Less Defense is MORE Defense?

You, once again, miss my point, and I think it's more based on the fact that it's an anti-Obama stance more than the actual content...that's cool, whatever...

Russia has no juice left in their tank militarily (conventional especially), but WE, by treating them as equals, add to the mirage that they are still a huge hyperpower. They are not. Do they have missiles? Yes. But my question concerning Russia is why do they care about our missile defense system UNLESS it's because we know it pulls the last teeth they have in their now already almost toothless head.

This is ALL saber rattling, and Obama made a tactical, perhaps even strategic mistake by treating their pen knife like it was two-handed broad sword. The timing is everything, too...it is NO mistake that this was announced one week before the G20. I just hope he got us something for this in return via some kind of back channel deal, because if he just gave this away for nothing than he's a far bigger idiot than I previously thought...
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