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Old 11-10-2009, 07:06 PM   #1
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Default 10 Percent of U.S. Mosques Preach Jihad, FBI Estimates

No "home grown" terrorists? 10% is consistent with the global percentage of muslims that are considered jihadists.

http://www.newsmax.com/headlines/Mos...mo_code=9099-1
10 Percent of U.S. Mosques Preach Jihad, FBI Estimates

Tuesday, November 10, 2009 12:09 PM
By: Ronald Kessler

Imams preach jihad and extremism in 10 percent of the 2,000 mosques in the United States, the FBI estimates.

That sums up the problem facing us as we ponder the meaning of Army Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan’s slayings of 13 people at Fort Hood, Texas. Given his association with a pro-al-Qaida imam in northern Virginia and his preoccupation with radical Islamic Web sites, it’s clear that the radical element of Islam influenced Hasan.

On the other hand, those who condemn Muslims in general because of the actions of Hasan and others like him are engaging in prejudice that has no place in America. Indeed, such stereotyping sets back the war on terror, because we need moderate Muslims on our side.

The problem is not the Quran, which is no more incendiary than some passages in the Bible. (Deuteronomy, for example, prescribes stoning to death for those who “served other gods and worshipped them.”) The problem is the radical element that uses the Quran as an excuse to engage in terrorism and the failure of many moderate Muslims to condemn the extremists.

About a quarter of the Muslims in America ages 18 through 29 believe that suicide bombings can be justified, according to a Pew Research Center poll. Generating those attitudes are imams who preach jihad and hatred in American mosques and postings on the Internet, according to FBI counterterrorism officials interviewed for my book “The Terrorist Watch: Inside the Desperate Race to Stop the Next Attack.”

Saying he is being conservative, an FBI counterterrorism official told me in interviews for the book that 1 in 10 imams preach jihad. Before 9/11, the number of mosques where imams preached jihad was even greater than today.

“Those who actively support extremist causes, say America is evil and deserves what it gets, and celebrate the death of soldiers, know they may come to our attention,” an FBI official says. “So they don’t do it as openly now.”

Before 9/11, he says, “There was much more of that because all of it was considered by Justice Department guidelines to be purely protected speech. We do not have incitement laws in America, but once an imam facilitates someone else taking action, he has crossed the line into material support and becomes our business.”

An example was Ali al-Timimi, a spiritual leader at a mosque in Northern Virginia who preached jihad and provided contact information for those who went to Afghanistan for training in terrorist camps. Al-Timimi is serving a life prison term.

The FBI has outreach programs to try to develop sources in the Muslim community and solicit tips, but FBI agents have found little receptivity. They find that Muslims often are in denial about the fact that the terrorists who threaten the U.S. are Muslims.

“I had this discussion with the director of a very prominent Muslim organization here in D.C.,” a frustrated counterterrorism agent says. “And he said, ‘Why are you guys always looking at the Muslim community?’”

The agent began laughing.

“Okay, you know what I’ll do?” the agent said. “I’ll start an Irish squad, or how about a Japanese squad? You want me to waste my time and your taxpayers' dollars going to look at the Irish? They’re not killing Americans. Right now, I’m going to put my money and my people in a place where the threat is.”

The agent tells them to take a look at the cells that the FBI has rolled up in the United States.

“I can name the home-grown cells, all of whom are Muslim, all of whom were seeking to murder Americans,” the agent says. “It’s not the Irish, it’s not the French, it’s not the Catholics, it’s not the Protestants, it’s the Muslims.”

In response, Muslim groups have told him he is rough around the edges.

“I’m not rough around the edges,” he tells them. “You’re just not used to straight talk.”

They respond by getting angry at him.

Although Muslims occasionally condemn al-Qaida, “Rarely do we have them coming to us and saying, ‘There are three guys in the community that we’re very concerned about,’” one agent says. “They want to fix it inside the community. They’re a closed group, a very, very closed group. It’s part of their culture that they want to settle the problem within their own communities. They’ve actually said that to us, which I then go crazy over.”

On the one hand, “They don’t want anyone to know they have extremists in their community,” the agent says. “Well, beautiful. Except do you read the newspapers? Everyone already knows it. That horse has left the barn. So there’s a lot of talk about engagement, but realistically, we’ve got a long, long way to go.”

At one meeting, a Muslim group suggested having a photo taken of its members with FBI Director Robert Mueller to show their community isn’t a bunch of terrorists and that they are partners in the war on terror.

An agent replied, “Let me make a suggestion: When you bring to my attention real extremists who are here to plan and do something, who are here supporting terrorism, and I work that based on your information, then I promise you, I will have the director stand up on the stage with you.”

To the agent’s amazement, the answer was: “That could never happen. We would lose our constituency. We could never admit to bringing someone to the FBI.”

“Well, we’ve just defined the problem, haven’t we?” the agent told them.

To be sure, some individual Muslims have brought leads to the FBI. That led to FBI cases in Lackawanna, N.Y.; Lodi, Calif.; and Atlanta. But the FBI has found that imams and other community leaders are reluctant to do that.

If the news media filmed imams preaching hated of America in mosques that are public, the number of imams publicly espousing jihad would dwindle to close to zero. Until that happens, Americans must learn to distinguish between the good guys and the bad guys.

“In recent years, U.S. soldiers have fought a common enemy on behalf of and often alongside Muslims in Bosnia, Kosovo, Kuwait, Somalia, and elsewhere,” the Wall Street Journal pointed out in an editorial. “The U.S. is fighting a sworn enemy today, just as in World War II American Germans, Italians and Japanese fought sworn U.S. enemies of the same race and religion. Many American Muslims will do the same if we stay focused on the real enemy, and show we have the will to do what’s necessary to find them and stop them.”

Ronald Kessler is chief Washington correspondent of Newsmax.com. View his previous reports and get his dispatches sent to you free via
e-mail. Go here now.

© 2009 Newsmax. All rights reserved.
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Old 11-10-2009, 07:39 PM   #2
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Default Re: 10 Percent of U.S. Mosques Preach Jihad, FBI Estimates

Quote:
“I can name the home-grown cells, all of whom are Muslim, all of whom were seeking to murder Americans,” the agent says. “It’s not the Irish, it’s not the French, it’s not the Catholics, it’s not the Protestants, it’s the Muslims.”
Panic!!!!!!!!!

When will these right wing extremist bastards stop with this racial stereotyping.
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Old 11-10-2009, 07:54 PM   #3
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Default Re: 10 Percent of U.S. Mosques Preach Jihad, FBI Estimates

Muslims want it both ways. No outside interference and no acceptance of responsibility. They do that because they don't care about being American or America more than what exists outside their own community. They don't understand that America stands for something greater than what exists five feet beyond their noses.
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Old 11-10-2009, 07:57 PM   #4
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Default Re: 10 Percent of U.S. Mosques Preach Jihad, FBI Estimates

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They (muslims) don't understand that America stands for something greater than what exists five feet beyond their noses.
...perhaps they do understand that....and thus the hatred?
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Old 11-11-2009, 09:45 AM   #5
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Default Re: 10 Percent of U.S. Mosques Preach Jihad, FBI Estimates

I still maintain that, relatively speaking, the US is a difficult place to radicalize Muslims because of the openness of our society and the success we've had being a "melting pot".

That's certainly not saying that it can't happen. There are 5-8 million Muslims in the US. It only takes a TINY percentage, literally one in a million to create a terrorist, and it makes it very difficult to actually track these people without infringing upon their rights.

HOWEVER, (and this kind of goes back to the Westboro Baptists thing), freedom of speech is one thing, but speech that is clearly intended to breech the peace is NOT protected speech.

This is kind of a slippery slope, and there's a great example from Cleveland of how these complicated issues are misunderstood.

Cleveland police recently arrested a serial killer who murdered 11 women (at least) and kept their remains in his home. He literally lived next to a sausage factory, which masked the smells, and there were other odd things about the case. He had a parole officer who had been to his house and reported nothing odd. Cops had been there checking up on him. He was black, and his victims were all black.

I was listening to a call-in show on the local NPR affiliate and the host was moderating a Q&A session with several representatives of the police and taking calls form the community. REPEATEDLY the cops were being accused of racism, shoddy police work, not caring, etc, etc...

What I found interesting is the fact that the general public is so ignorant of the way our society works. Individuals rights are SO protected that it actually makes the police work very difficult to actually do. Some examples:

The guy was a registered sex offender, and people were pissed that they weren't notified. Well, they were, originally....under Megan's Law. But he only had to register notification with his neighbors once, and he moved into the neighborhood in 2005. In 2008, the law changed and required him to notify neighbors again, BUT ONLY WHEN HE MOVED INTO A NEW NEIGHBORHOOD! The cops were not allowed to notify neighbors because he was already there. His rights would have been infringed upon. People were angry, yes, but had the cops notified the neighbors, they'd have violated his rights...their hands were literally tied.

People were outraged that the cops didn't do anything about the 14 women missing since 2005. Well, they DID....for the 3 that were actually reported. In fact they did thorough follow-up investigations, but, as is the case of most missing persons, especially prostitutes and drug ******* (which almost all the victims were), they usually WANT to go missing. How many resources should cops dedicate to searching for these people when it's well-known they kind of lifestyle they lead? More importantly, how can cops act on missing person reports if they aren't actually filed?

A woman reported being raped by the killer, but she then disappeared. Cops can't act on tips like this without corroborating witnesses. They can't arrest without probable cause. They really could only question the guy (which they did) and he denied everything. In fact, there are several episodes like this, but the victims refused to talk to detectives. They cannot make a case without the victims cooperation.

All the while the dude is complying with his obligations, reporting to the Sheriff every 90 days, etc, etc...when they show up, there are never any smells, the cops can only do what they can do, and nothing much happens to even report on. Only when they finally found a woman who was willing to talk (she was literally attacked the very night of the last police visit) were they able to get a search warrant and find all these bodies.

The point is, the citizens in the neighborhood, the very people who clamor that their rights are always being violated, now want it the other way. They were angry with the police for not doing enough even though, IMO, they'd done all the law would allow them to do. There are VERY stringent laws and statutes in place protecting every little right, even of convicted rapists and sex offenders which hindered the police greatly in this case.

The tie-in is simple: You can't have laws that bend over backwards to protect citizens rights AND properly enforce all the laws in this country without either some rights being violated, or some crimes being particularity difficult to solve or proactively stop. People need to realize they can't have it both ways...Either personal rights are paramount, or protecting the populace takes precedent, but it cannot be both ways.
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Old 11-11-2009, 12:57 PM   #6
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Default Re: 10 Percent of U.S. Mosques Preach Jihad, FBI Estimates

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I still maintain that, relatively speaking, the US is a difficult place to radicalize Muslims because of the openness of our society and the success we've had being a "melting pot".
Rev, I respect your opinions and posts very much. They're always well conceived and presented.

With the utmost respect, I have to disagree here. Europe, the UK, and the US are fertile fields for radical muslim infiltration, and the radicalization of select recruits because we are open societies and because our borders and law enforcement are lax. That is central to their grand strategy, and to the success of their operations. Think about Madrid, London, World Trade 1, 9/11, and Oklahoma City. All the operations were staged from within with local logistics and support. Some operatives were brought is in some cases. They are financed and coordinated globally by al queda.

And because these Western "democracies" are open, and "melting pots", it is easy to assimilate into schools, universities, trades, and professions. Heck, we even provide education and health care, and finance much of the assimilation. From that beach head they infiltrate education, health care, industry, the armed forces, intel, and the gubmint.

IMHO, the "Ellis Island" for terrorists is probably Embry Riddle University in Daytona Beach. Wall to wall kids from the Middle East. All learning how to fly. Atta and his bunch "passed through" that and other aeronautic schools.

From here on, we're in agreement

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That's certainly not saying that it can't happen. There are 5-8 million Muslims in the US. It only takes a TINY percentage, literally one in a million to create a terrorist, and it makes it very difficult to actually track these people without infringing upon their rights.
They believe it will take 8 million to comprise the necessary base to take us down.

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Originally Posted by revefsreleets View Post
REPEATEDLY the cops were being accused of racism, shoddy police work, not caring, etc, etc...

What I found interesting is the fact that the general public is so ignorant of the way our society works. Individuals rights are SO protected that it actually makes the police work very difficult to actually do.
Again, because we are so "open", politically correct, and have protected demographics, radical muslims operate under the same. We are admonished by our "president" to not jump to conclusions on Ft Hood. And that doesn't stir outrage because we're so conditioned.

CAIR, the NAACP/ACLU of islam in the US, is not only the "happy face" for terrorism, but is the pulpit of some of the most extreme islamist rhetoric.

Quote:
Originally Posted by revefsreleets View Post
The point is, the citizens in the neighborhood, the very people who clamor that their rights are always being violated, now want it the other way.
This is one of the insidious aspects of liberalism, and it is central to their "divide and conquer" strategy to take us down. Multiculturalism is designed to divide. Groups within the multicultural demand that their unique "rights" be protected while being protected from any possible threat. That breeds animosity against authority and other "groups".

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Originally Posted by revefsreleets View Post
Either personal rights are paramount, or protecting the populace takes precedent, but it cannot be both ways.
I think it is possible to have a balance between freedom and vigilance. But not within a society bound and gagged by PCness and multiculturalism.

One of the key drivers to Germany and Japan rising from the ashes of WWII was their industriousness. They realized they had to produce to survive. We haven't made that realization as we have abdicated entire industries to our global competitors. Nor do we realize that now our very survival is threatened by islam.

If, by some blessing, leadership were to emerge and bring us to the realization that we are at war with the most threatening enemy we have faced, that our survival is dependent on unity as Americans, that the enemy is among us, and that that enemy must be driven out at any cost, then we stand a prayer of survival. Otherwise...
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Old 11-11-2009, 01:29 PM   #7
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Default Re: 10 Percent of U.S. Mosques Preach Jihad, FBI Estimates

what if the headline read "10% of all Christian churches teach the killing of non-Christians"

Or "10% of all southern white Men teach their children to kill minorities"

Or "10% of all Bengals fans secretly love the Steelers but are afraid to tell their family members."
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Old 11-11-2009, 01:48 PM   #8
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Default Re: 10 Percent of U.S. Mosques Preach Jihad, FBI Estimates

There were some dudes on CNN last night in the street praising that Army major for what he did and trying to "recruit" people here to join there cause.

I wonder where the line is drawn between free speech and posing a legitimate threat.
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Old 11-11-2009, 01:50 PM   #9
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Default Re: 10 Percent of U.S. Mosques Preach Jihad, FBI Estimates

There's f-ed up people in every culture and every walk of life. Sure we should remain vigilant that Muslims are going to do some crazy shyte, but in the same respect we should remain vigilant that our WASP neighbor(s) are going to go crazy one day and shoot up a grocery store or that someones kid is going to go nuts and take a gun and shoot up a school or build a bomb in his spare time.

IMO, a lot of it has to do with how detached we've become as a society in regards to our own communities. People who live and work with each other aren't nearly as close and mindful of each other as they were even 15-20 years ago. People don't notice that weird dude down the street going a little bit buggier from day to day like they used to. They just expect that the police or the gov't are going to take care of it for them when the time comes.
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Old 11-11-2009, 02:17 PM   #10
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Default Re: 10 Percent of U.S. Mosques Preach Jihad, FBI Estimates

Vincent,

First off, I'm not saying that the US is FREE from this threat, but that our openness and acceptance of others makes it MORE DIFFICULT to radicalize Muslims. If you think about this intuitively, it makes sense. After all, the radical Muslim movement is based on a hatred of the ways and beliefs of "The West", as well as the misconceptions of what the US intent is regarding Islam.. The long and short of it is, they lie. It's much harder to lie to someone living in the US about how evil it is, and how awful the Country is to Muslims to a Muslim actually living here.

I STRONGLY recommend that you, or anyone else interested in learning more about this AND having you eyes opened regarding some common misconceptions read the book "Leaderless Jihad" by Marc Sageman. Don't take my word for it...here is a review from Amazon from a guy with much more credibility than me...


As an officer in the Air Force and analyst for DOD, I can not say strongly enough that this book is a must read for all Americans. Sageman diligently puts together a solid argument that considers context, scientific appreciation, individual and group psychology, and Middle East conditions. This book is extremely helpful in understanding the threat of Islamic terrorism and is vital for Americans to read if we are to appreciate, as a country united, the complexities of the terrorist threat. Bottom line: the threat of terrorism is real, but the greatest threat to America is how we choose to respond to it. Although we are succeeding in killing and disrupting the bad guys, as we must, we are possibly loosing the battle in regards to Muslim perspective towards the U.S.(hearts and minds). Policy implications in the book are spot in. Great book...must read!
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