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Old 11-18-2009, 11:48 PM   #1
tony hipchest
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Default Things Ben must work on to be considered "elite"...

...besides keep on winning championships, of course-

(keep in mind i take big ben over all but maybe 1 qb in the league, but anyone who watched the pats vs. colts on snf knows brady or manning woulda helped the steelers defeat the bungles).

granted, max starks and mike tomlin have all but said that a gameplan that included 75% pass plays vs 25% run plays vs. the bungles was a failure and that hindsight is 20-20, but ben didnt execute what i thought was something al davis cooked up and definitely expesed some areas he can improve in, to be nationally recognized with the "elite" qb's of the nfl.

1) deep ball accuracy. i always hear how manning, brady, rivers, or brees throw a beautiful deep ball. has anyone ever heard anyone ever say that about ben? anyone remember the last 40 yard bomb from ben hitting the wr in stride or where the wr wasnt wide open yet had to adjust?

2) 3 and 5 step drops. 1-2-3 *bam* ball is delivered that quick. can ben release the ball as soon as his foot hits on a 5 step drop? have we even thrown a quick slant to mike wallace this year? if not, why?

3) i have heard many complaints ben doesnt like to use the "check down receiver". i think this is false. i would say ben doesnt like to use the primary receiver. plenty of times, ben throws to miller, ward, or moore as a final option to bail him out. i think he is great at this. i think too often he abandons the primary wr, and looks for someone "more open".

4) hit the first open guy you see. there have been a ton of plays this year where all 3-4 receiving targets are open. brilliantly designed plays and most often they work. sometimes i think this leads to a bit of indecisiveness with ben looking for who is "most" open and where he can gain the biggest chunk of yardage. while it normally works, it can lead to a false sense of pocket security.

5) anticipate a wr getting open as opposed to waiting for them to get open. i think this is a big reason wallace outruns his throws and often has to adjust. holmes too.

finally, ignore those who say to "just throw the ball away". this is not his game. sure ben is getting sacked and getting tackled for a loss, but he is not taking the HITS he has in years past. there is a difference between getting tackled vs getting stuck like a duck.

this is a big improvement in bens game, and his play this year just shows he has more improvement to go and tons of upside still to be reached.

the "elite" guys like manning, brady, favre, have already reached their peak, and are already as good as they are gonna get.

manning and favre are having career years, yet ben is right there with them in comp. % and YPA. ben is doing real well cutting down his interceptions. he is steadilly improving, while those guys are just keeping pace with their league mvp, sb winning, HOF careers.

ben is not yet a finished product (as this years stats have shown) while the others are.
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Old 11-18-2009, 11:59 PM   #2
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Default Re: Things Ben must work on to be considered "elite"...

the thing that really stood out for me the last game was, that when the pocket was collapsing instead of looking to leave the pocket like he normally does he just stood there looking downfield till it was too late. could this be the by product of getting extra time the last few weeks ? had he gotten "too comfortable" in the pocket ? i mean his whole carrear he's been running for his life to make plays, maybe the lpass protection lately has lulled him into a false sence of security...
completely agree with the deep ball...he normally underthrows receivers. i really can't think of too many times he has hit guys in stride...
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Old 11-19-2009, 12:00 AM   #3
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Default Re: Things Ben must work on to be considered "elite"...

"ben is not yet a finished product (as this years stats have shown) while the others are"

I would be scared to death if I were other teams in the league.

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Old 11-19-2009, 12:15 AM   #4
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Default Re: Things Ben must work on to be considered "elite"...

Quote:
5) anticipate a wr getting open as opposed to waiting for them to get open. i think this is a big reason wallace outruns his throws and often has to adjust. holmes too.
I think this is one of the biggest areas he could improve on. Which would all work together with the quick 3-5 step plays and cut down on the sacks.

Quote:
1) deep ball accuracy. i always hear how manning, brady, rivers, or brees throw a beautiful deep ball. has anyone ever heard anyone ever say that about ben? anyone remember the last 40 yard bomb from ben hitting the wr in stride or where the wr wasnt wide open yet had to adjust?
Definitely needs work. The last few I can remember were thrown short. Don't know if it's the receivers out running the ball or just short? But I can't remember Ben over throwing a deep ball either.

As far as throwing the ball away, if he see's no ones open and there's no where to escape, he should try to throw it away. IMO
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Old 11-19-2009, 12:23 AM   #5
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Default Re: Things Ben must work on to be considered "elite"...

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I think this is one of the biggest areas he could improve on. Which would all work together with the quick 3-5 step plays and cut down on the sacks.



Definitely needs work. The last few I can remember were thrown short. Don't know if it's the receivers out running the ball or just short? But I can't remember Ben over throwing a deep ball either.

As far as throwing the ball away, if he see's no ones open and there's no where to escape, he should try to throw it away. IMO
he doesn't always play "smart" football...i mean how many times have you seen him take a sack when he had an oppurtunity to throw it away, and take them out of FG range....that drives me nuts...
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Old 11-19-2009, 12:30 AM   #6
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Default Re: Things Ben must work on to be considered "elite"...

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the thing that really stood out for me the last game was, that when the pocket was collapsing instead of looking to leave the pocket like he normally does he just stood there looking downfield till it was too late. could this be the by product of getting extra time the last few weeks ? had he gotten "too comfortable" in the pocket ? i mean his whole carrear he's been running for his life to make plays, maybe the lpass protection lately has lulled him into a false sence of security...
completely agree with the deep ball...he normally underthrows receivers. i really can't think of too many times he has hit guys in stride...
just like the steelers devised a "brilliant" game plan to avoid the bungles stone wall rush defense and attack their porous pass defense (3:1 pass/run ratio), the dumb assed bungles coaches devised a plan to contain ben within the pocket. im pretty sure they accurately predicted the steelers would try to change things up from what had worked for them the past few weeks and try to trick them, (instead of sticking with the winning formula, which the steelers figured, the bengals figured, would be too predictable).

classic case of the coaches out thinking themselves as opposed to K.I.S.S.
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Old 11-19-2009, 12:43 AM   #7
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Default Re: Things Ben must work on to be considered "elite"...

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Originally Posted by tony hipchest View Post
just like the steelers devised a "brilliant" game plan to avoid the bungles stone wall rush defense and attack their porous pass defense (3:1 pass/run ratio), the dumb assed bungles coaches devised a plan to contain ben within the pocket. im pretty sure they accurately predicted the steelers would try to change things up from what had worked for them the past few weeks and try to trick them, (instead of sticking with the winning formula, which the steelers figured, the bengals figured, would be too predictable).

classic case of the coaches out thinking themselves as opposed to K.I.S.S.
i'd say when they were putting together the game plan, they weren't thinking so much about what we have done well, than they were what the bengal HAVEN'T DONE WELL. the bengals came in 2nd against the run and 24th in passing yds aloud. common sence would lead you to believe passing was the easier yds to be had. i'm sure they never factored in that the line would revert back to the pile of suck they were in week 1 and 2.... but i would have thought they would have scrapped the plan at halftime and reviewed not what WAS working but what WASN'T working... that being the empty backfield...the bengals brought the house everytime they seen it. the steelers didn't answer with quick throws and short routes.
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Old 11-19-2009, 02:20 AM   #8
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Default Re: Things Ben must work on to be considered "elite"...

I'm still scratching my head over that game. The offense (collectively) played pretty well against the Bungles in their first meeting. Ben was well-protected and accurate... we also scored two TDs in that game. We also got a bit of a running game going with Parker. Since Mendy is, at this point in his career, much better than Willie, and Ben has improved since that first Cincy game, we should have leveled this team.

Not sure what happened.
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Old 11-19-2009, 03:17 AM   #9
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Default Re: Things Ben must work on to be considered "elite"...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterOfPuppets View Post
the thing that really stood out for me the last game was, that when the pocket was collapsing instead of looking to leave the pocket like he normally does he just stood there looking downfield till it was too late. could this be the by product of getting extra time the last few weeks ? had he gotten "too comfortable" in the pocket ? i mean his whole carrear he's been running for his life to make plays, maybe the lpass protection lately has lulled him into a false sence of security...
completely agree with the deep ball...he normally underthrows receivers. i really can't think of too many times he has hit guys in stride...
What I saw was a game plan that kept him from escaping out of the pocket. This is something other teams have tried but failed. They kept the pocket closed so he either threw it or got plenty of pressure. They also did a good job of knocking down passes.
They just executed well and we didn't have the answer. The answer I think would have been more draw plays instead of play action.
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Old 11-19-2009, 08:55 AM   #10
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Default Re: Things Ben must work on to be considered "elite"...

Ben Like any QB had an off game. The Cincy game just did not go our way like the first time. Ben and the offense will be fine.
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