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Old 12-23-2009, 06:25 PM   #11
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Default Re: Arians deserving?

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I give LeBeau credit when he deserves it... and this year he does not.. Sorry but look at the way our defense has played.... Not saying it is his fault but there are defensive coaches not getting the job done this year.
I guess you are right. After 50 successful years in professional football, Dick LeBeau suddenly got stupid this year around game 9 in the season.
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Old 12-23-2009, 07:06 PM   #12
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Default Re: Arians deserving?

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Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson View Post
I guess you are right. After 50 successful years in professional football, Dick LeBeau suddenly got stupid this year around game 9 in the season.


He also had one of the best all time defenses in the NFL last year.
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Old 12-23-2009, 07:25 PM   #13
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Default Re: Arians deserving?

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Originally Posted by BIGBENFASTWILLIE View Post
I give LeBeau credit when he deserves it... and this year he does not.. Sorry but look at the way our defense has played.... Not saying it is his fault but there are defensive coaches not getting the job done this year.
Bu, bu, but Troy and Smith . . . .

Anywho - though I wholeheartedly agree that our D has blown chunks this season and is directly responsible for giving at least 4 games away to our opponents, as I've stated all season long (and got scoffed at) - it really boils down to execution. Our D doesn't finish tackles (not only the secondary), doesn't give that extra effort to force turnovers as they did last season, and when the 4Q comes around, they look tired, dazed and in a state of confusion. Papa Lebeau is the best DC to ever hold that title in the NFL and I'm sure he is just as much, if not more, frustrated with his unit as those of us who clearly see that the D has been the achilles heel this season.

To keep with the spirit of the thread, my answer (no surprises here) is NO - Arians is NOT deserving of all of the bullshit and flack he receives from the fans and some of the sports media here in Pittsburgh (there are a few of the sports jocks around here who support him as I do). Though I don't always agree with his playcalls, I am firm in my opinion that execution is the name of the game, whether on ST's, O or D. Amen.
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Old 12-23-2009, 07:58 PM   #14
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Default Re: Arians deserving?

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Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson View Post
I guess you are right. After 50 successful years in professional football, Dick LeBeau suddenly got stupid this year around game 9 in the season.
Come on El G.

What about 2006? He was our DC then too. How about the second half of 2007?

How about his time with the Bengals, 97-2002? The best he ranked was 14th in points and 9th in yards. Most of the time, it was in the lowest third.

How about his defenses with the Bengals between 84 and 91? They ranked in the 20's most of the time, with the highest ranking being 7th in points nad 15th in yards. That was only once. It was the bottom third outside of that (Middle third once in each stat)

Matter of fact, it wasn't until he already inherited a solid defense in Pittsburgh that he started ranking high.

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Do I like Lebeau's defense? Yes, I love it.

But let's be realistic. His 7 years as a DC in Cinci was mediocre at best. His 2 years at Pittsburgh was helped greatly be coming into a top defense.
His next 3 years in Cinci was again mediocre.
His last stint here has been pretty dang good. However, 2006 showed cracks. 2007 lists us as 2nd in points and 1st in yards, but we all remember how the defense was stifling the first half and then couldn't stop anything the second half... so those stats are a little misleading.

So I really don't see a problem asking if offenses have figured out his scheming. He isn't the great untouchable. People game film his defenses just like everyone elses... AND, in the fourth quarter, we are the worst defense in the NFL. That has been true ALL YEAR.

Something that consistent tells me we have a few problems.

Just like with Arians and the offense, it isn't "Just the Coach" It isn't "Just Execution" it isn't "Just the playcalls" and it sure isn't "Just because Troy and Aaron are out" as last year's playoffs expose. There is a flaw in the scheming.

I am sure Lebeau and Tomlin both see it... and will fix it in the offseason. But some blame for the failures DOES lay at Lebeau's feet... just as some offensive blame lays at the feet of Arians.
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Old 12-23-2009, 08:06 PM   #15
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Default Re: Arians deserving?

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You just advocated for the firing of Dick LeBeau and suggested he is "unfit to coach another game". I'll bump this one in August when LeBeau gets inducted into the Hall of Fame.

OK, we can pretty much file this thread with some of the great gems posted by mmalone.
That is why I don't blame Arians for Steelers' woes. The D has been crap the last 5 games and in the 4th quarter all year, do we blame the great LeBeau, hell no.Not Dicks fault Carter can't cover, run or tackle anymore. Or that Gay can't tackle or cover either. I still think the O line is the main problem on offense, they have their good games I will be first to admit but they don't show up in others which forces Ben to have to make great plays all game long, or take a sack. I would love to draft some stud lineman who could get us back to running power football, which is what I love and which is traditional Steelers football. Problem now we have seemingly bigger holes in our secondary, and our best cover man in Ike is no spring chicken. That is why its hard to have a dynasty team, its tough always being on top. The great thing about the Steelers is the playoffs is almost a given most years and thats why we as fans get frustrated when they struggle.
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Old 12-23-2009, 08:45 PM   #16
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Default Re: Arians deserving?

Preacher, ......LeBeau has a track record of success as a player, as a coach. Tough to judge a guy on his time with the Bengals when the Brown family was so cheap they were sending their coaches to the scouting combine on a bus, while the rest of the NFL purchased plane tickets.

Cubanstogie, I don't blame Arians for the Steelers woes, but have seen the shortcomings of a pass first, run 2nd offense since he was the OC in Cleveland. It may work with warm climate teams, dome teams, etc, but when you have to play in December and January in the Northeast......you will be at a disadvantage.

In short, LeBeau is missing pieces starters and the backups in Kirschke, Carter, Gay, are not filling in. Add that Potsie looks really old and slow, plus the fact they are getting no pressure on the QB and its a recipe for disaster.

Offensively, the Steelers are putting up numbers in the air and moving the ball via the pass, but when they cannot pass the ball effectively, they dont have a strong enough run game to move the chains consistently and keep the offense on the field. It reminds me so much of the Browns offenses of the early 2000's that Arians lead with WR's like Kevin Johnson, Northcutt, Andre Davis and Quincy Morgan.
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Old 12-23-2009, 08:54 PM   #17
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Default Re: Arians deserving?

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Preacher, ......LeBeau has a track record of success as a player, as a coach. Tough to judge a guy on his time with the Bengals when the Brown family was so cheap they were sending their coaches to the scouting combine on a bus, while the rest of the NFL purchased plane tickets..
I give you a point about the cheapness of the Browns.

But the counterpoint is that his only successes have been with the Steelers, and that with a team that already had solid players on it.

Look, I am not looking do dog LeBeau, I absolutely love him as a D coordinator. I just think that he has as much to answer for this year, as people think Arians has to answer for with the offense. I don't think he can be "let off the hook" and not be held responsible.

I also think, as I said before, that he and Tomlin will get together in the offseason and fix it.

As far as our run game goes, I agree. That is why I keep hammering on balance. Then again, with our first 1000 yard rusher since 2007, maybe we are headed back there.
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Old 12-23-2009, 10:51 PM   #18
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Default Re: Arians deserving?

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Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson View Post
Preacher, ......LeBeau has a track record of success as a player, as a coach. Tough to judge a guy on his time with the Bengals when the Brown family was so cheap they were sending their coaches to the scouting combine on a bus, while the rest of the NFL purchased plane tickets.

Cubanstogie, I don't blame Arians for the Steelers woes, but have seen the shortcomings of a pass first, run 2nd offense since he was the OC in Cleveland. It may work with warm climate teams, dome teams, etc, but when you have to play in December and January in the Northeast......you will be at a disadvantage.

In short, LeBeau is missing pieces starters and the backups in Kirschke, Carter, Gay, are not filling in. Add that Potsie looks really old and slow, plus the fact they are getting no pressure on the QB and its a recipe for disaster.

Offensively, the Steelers are putting up numbers in the air and moving the ball via the pass, but when they cannot pass the ball effectively, they dont have a strong enough run game to move the chains consistently and keep the offense on the field. It reminds me so much of the Browns offenses of the early 2000's that Arians lead with WR's like Kevin Johnson, Northcutt, Andre Davis and Quincy Morgan.
I would love to have the run first power football with the line dominating, along with a strong D. Your absolutely right thats the kind of football that wins in December. I am not sure its because Arians philosophy is opposite of that or its because our line just isn't dominating enough. I have always thought Arians has done well with the hand he was dealt , but its hard to say if a different OC could get more out of our running game. I guess time will tell, I am starting to think this year may be the end.
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Old 12-24-2009, 12:13 AM   #19
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Default Re: Arians deserving?

How did this go from another should Arians be fired to the first should Labeau be fired thread that I have seen? Either way I;m gonna throw my two cents in about both.

Arians- No. Zeirlan is the only coach that we need to be rid of. Arians is intelligent, and in case you havent noticed, look at how our offensive players are blossoming into stars under him. Whether this is directly his coaching or his suggestions on draft day he is doing MOST of the right things.

Labeau- What are you all thinking? How often does he let us down? NO NO NO NO! I love Labeau. His defenses have revolutionized football. Great coach on all facets.

Now to preach to you all about how one player missing can make an impact. If you remove one card from the bottom of the pyramid it's gonna fall. We lost arguably the two most important players on our defense, so to make that analogy work, try removing two cards now. We are no longer a cohesive unit. Our defense is built around a defensive line of 3 men that can stop runs at, or 1-2 yards beyond the line of scrimmage 9 out of 10 times. I believe Smith is our best lineman, but you can argue with me on that all you want. Polamalu is great at stopping the run but he is incredible in coverage. QB's are terrified of throwing his way so they hold on to the ball longer giving our LB corps, who get much help from the D Line, the time to go in for the kill via sack. This however is a catch 22 my friends. Because the LB's get the fear and respect from opposing teams that cause a quarterback to make a silly throw that leads to Troy looking better. This part of my post was not to take away from the linebackers' success but to explain how this machine was built.
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Old 12-24-2009, 12:47 AM   #20
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Default Re: Arians deserving?

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How about his defenses with the Bengals between 84 and 91? They ranked in the 20's most of the time, with the highest ranking being 7th in points nad 15th in yards. That was only once. It was the bottom third outside of that (Middle third once in each stat)

Do I like Lebeau's defense? Yes, I love it.

But let's be realistic. His 7 years as a DC in Cinci was mediocre at best. His 2 years at Pittsburgh was helped greatly be coming into a top defense.
His next 3 years in Cinci was again mediocre.
.
c'mon preacher, lets be realistic. this arians apology campaign is rediculous.

maybe you wanna look at the bengals 2 appearances in the superbowl vs the mighty montana/walsh led 49ers, before making such claims.

"mediocre at best"????

holy cow! this is almost as absurd as revs claim that bill walsh couldnt coach this 09 steelers defending championship team to score more than 6 points vs. the browns.

you guys are absolutely insane! my only guess to this absurdity is that arians has photos of y'all...

seriously guys... im sure there is a circus hiring out there somewhere.
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