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Old 12-23-2009, 11:53 PM   #21
tony hipchest
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Default Re: Arians deserving?

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Originally Posted by #1LambertFan View Post
Now to preach to you all about how one player missing can make an impact. If you remove one card from the bottom of the pyramid it's gonna fall. We lost arguably the two most important players on our defense, so to make that analogy work, try removing two cards now. We are no longer a cohesive unit. Our defense is built around a defensive line of 3 men that can stop runs at, or 1-2 yards beyond the line of scrimmage 9 out of 10 times. I believe Smith is our best lineman, but you can argue with me on that all you want. Polamalu is great at stopping the run but he is incredible in coverage. QB's are terrified of throwing his way so they hold on to the ball longer giving our LB corps, who get much help from the D Line, the time to go in for the kill via sack. This however is a catch 22 my friends. Because the LB's get the fear and respect from opposing teams that cause a quarterback to make a silly throw that leads to Troy looking better. This part of my post was not to take away from the linebackers' success but to explain how this machine was built.
while i totally agree with this analogy 100%, there seems to be a pretty strong faction here that believes that if you remove 2 cards from the bottom of the pyramid, you simply replace them with the cinder blocks waiting on the bench.

not only should carter and kirschke play as well as troy and smith, but they should play better because we are the pittsburgh steelers.
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Old 12-24-2009, 12:30 AM   #22
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Default Re: Arians deserving?

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c'mon preacher, lets be realistic. this arians apology campaign is rediculous.

maybe you wanna look at the bengals 2 appearances in the superbowl vs the mighty montana/walsh led 49ers, before making such claims.

"mediocre at best"????

holy cow! this is almost as absurd as revs claim that bill walsh couldnt coach this 09 steelers defending championship team to score more than 6 points vs. the browns.

you guys are absolutely insane! my only guess to this absurdity is that arians has photos of y'all...

seriously guys... im sure there is a circus hiring out there somewhere.
Tony.. either argue against my arguments or please leave them alone... but deal with them honestly please.

This has nothing to do with Arians. I posted concerning where Lebeau's defenses stood against the rest of the league. Except for the 3 years he took over an already very good defense for the Steelers in the mid 90's, he had a very mediocre defensive career. Care to actually dispute those facts? Here is the website I got it from.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/

Seems the only circus out there is the Troy P. apology campaign.
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Old 12-24-2009, 12:37 AM   #23
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Default Re: Arians deserving?

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Originally Posted by tony hipchest View Post
while i totally agree with this analogy 100%, there seems to be a pretty strong faction here that believes that if you remove 2 cards from the bottom of the pyramid, you simply replace them with the cinder blocks waiting on the bench.

not only should carter and kirschke play as well as troy and smith, but they should play better because we are the pittsburgh steelers.
Don't be ignorant.

That is a gross mischaracterization of many arguments around here.

Funny thing, I have YET to see you answer why our defense WITH TROY was able to be driven and scored on in teh fourth quarter throughout the playoffs last year. Without his INT, there is a chance we don't even make it to the SB.

Explain to me please, why a defense with Troy and Aaron can completely collapse 3 different times in teh fourth quarter. And yes, I consider 14 points to be a collapse. That is 2 touchdowns in the last quarter for San Diego, one touchdown and driving for a second in the last quarter of Balitmore (Thank goodness for the pic.. which can't be counted on every game) and 14 points in the SB.

Since Troy P. is so invaluable that he is the difference maker, why did Troy allow 14 points each in two playoff games and 7 going on 14 in another?


(For all others reading this... I have no problems with Troy. I think he is the best SS out there. I just don't think he is the soul cause of all our defensive woes unlike Tony. )
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Old 12-24-2009, 04:32 AM   #24
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Default Re: Arians deserving?

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Don't be ignorant.

That is a gross mischaracterization of many arguments around here.

Funny thing, I have YET to see you answer why our defense WITH TROY was able to be driven and scored on in teh fourth quarter throughout the playoffs last year. Without his INT, there is a chance we don't even make it to the SB.

Explain to me please, why a defense with Troy and Aaron can completely collapse 3 different times in teh fourth quarter. And yes, I consider 14 points to be a collapse. That is 2 touchdowns in the last quarter for San Diego, one touchdown and driving for a second in the last quarter of Balitmore (Thank goodness for the pic.. which can't be counted on every game) and 14 points in the SB.

Since Troy P. is so invaluable that he is the difference maker, why did Troy allow 14 points each in two playoff games and 7 going on 14 in another?


(For all others reading this... I have no problems with Troy. I think he is the best SS out there. I just don't think he is the soul cause of all our defensive woes unlike Tony. )
I think what your speaking of happens in the NFL from time to time regardless of who is on the field. I had and have the same concerns about last seasons playoff run, but lets put that in some perspective.

The SD game we had a big lead, and I believe we were playing more of a prevent D.
The Baltimore game, offensively we didn't put them away (division rival they know us so it's harder), defensively well the same could be said, as a division rival and the 3rd time we played them, they know what works and doesn't work against us.
In the Super Bowl we dealt with a coaching staff that knew our D and tendencies very well after spending years practicing against it. In addition, the Cards had players on O (Boldin, Fitzgerald) with as much ability as our best D players.
What I have noticed this season is the rest of the DB's seem to be less aggresive with Troy out, seem to have some confusion in coverage, and appear to be mentally tired.
Smith creates havoc on the line because he is so hard to block, usually frees a LB.
IMO the main problem with the D is the amount of PICS we have dropped this season, and that IMO is the difference in performance. Those balls get caught by our guys we don't even discuss the shortcomings of the D,

As for B.A. I thought he called a great game against GB. Had some flow, made great use of play action and took what the D gave him. More often than not he "searches" for plays. I still am not a fan of the guy as an OC, too many empty sets in the red zone and on 3rd and short. But if he can finish out the year the way he did with GB maybe he gets another chance next season unless there is someone that much better out there.
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Old 12-24-2009, 08:12 AM   #25
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Default Re: Arians deserving?

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Originally Posted by tony hipchest View Post
while i totally agree with this analogy 100%, there seems to be a pretty strong faction here that believes that if you remove 2 cards from the bottom of the pyramid, you simply replace them with the cinder blocks waiting on the bench.

not only should carter and kirschke play as well as troy and smith, but they should play better because we are the pittsburgh steelers.
As far as I'm concerned Carter was a cinder block last week, he did a great impression of one when Grant ran buy him without even making a move. Actually it was a Jeff Reed imression. There is no doubt Troy takes a load off the rest of D, but there has got to be a better CB out there than Gay, with or without Troy he can't tackle even when he happens to be on his receiver as opposed to the usual 15 yard cushion. Now I not the kind of fan who wants change after 1 bad game but we are talking 6 or 7 in a row.
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Old 12-24-2009, 03:21 PM   #26
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Default Re: Arians deserving?

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I think what your speaking of happens in the NFL from time to time regardless of who is on the field. I had and have the same concerns about last seasons playoff run, but lets put that in some perspective.

The SD game we had a big lead, and I believe we were playing more of a prevent D.
The Baltimore game, offensively we didn't put them away (division rival they know us so it's harder), defensively well the same could be said, as a division rival and the 3rd time we played them, they know what works and doesn't work against us.
In the Super Bowl we dealt with a coaching staff that knew our D and tendencies very well after spending years practicing against it. In addition, the Cards had players on O (Boldin, Fitzgerald) with as much ability as our best D players.
What I have noticed this season is the rest of the DB's seem to be less aggresive with Troy out, seem to have some confusion in coverage, and appear to be mentally tired.
Smith creates havoc on the line because he is so hard to block, usually frees a LB.
IMO the main problem with the D is the amount of PICS we have dropped this season, and that IMO is the difference in performance. Those balls get caught by our guys we don't even discuss the shortcomings of the D,

As for B.A. I thought he called a great game against GB. Had some flow, made great use of play action and took what the D gave him. More often than not he "searches" for plays. I still am not a fan of the guy as an OC, too many empty sets in the red zone and on 3rd and short. But if he can finish out the year the way he did with GB maybe he gets another chance next season unless there is someone that much better out there.
Thing is.. That "Great lead" wouldn't have mattered with a Ben Interception. Then, we would have been fighting for our lives. So it the fact that it did happen is very worrisome. The fact that the exact same thing is happening this year is even more worrisome.

Actually, it points to playcalling. If we allow 14 points in teh fourth quarter last year in a playoff game, and allow the same thing this year, why keep calling the same prevent D. plays when they don't work? Watch the 4th quarter and see how many rushers we send. It is 3 or 4 rushers. That means we are playing a prevent D. That doesn't cause you to question teh play-calling at all? Or to question why we keep having problems in the fourth quarter?

And the fact of the matter is, we shut down the Cards for 3 complete quarters. How did their inside knowledge of our D help them for 45 minutes? It didn't. Did they have an epiphany in the fourth quarter? No. Our defense failed.

We have a SERIOUS problem. Our defense is a fourth quarter failure, starting all the way back in the playoffs of 2008-When Troy was healthy. It needs to be addressed.
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Old 12-24-2009, 04:06 PM   #27
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Default Re: Arians deserving?

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As far as I'm concerned Carter was a cinder block last week, he did a great impression of one when Grant ran buy him without even making a move. Actually it was a Jeff Reed imression. There is no doubt Troy takes a load off the rest of D, but there has got to be a better CB out there than Gay, with or without Troy he can't tackle even when he happens to be on his receiver as opposed to the usual 15 yard cushion. Now I not the kind of fan who wants change after 1 bad game but we are talking 6 or 7 in a row.
I agree, Carter looked like the same guy that David Garrard ran around in the wildcard game 2 years ago. He needs to be upgraded and probably will be in the upcoming draft.

As for Gay, I think we have our future replacement for him in the likes of Lewis and Burnett. Problem is they are still rookies who's minds are spinning to get the call right......by next season I expect to see them play better as the game slows down.
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Old 12-24-2009, 04:17 PM   #28
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I agree, Carter looked like the same guy that David Garrard ran around in the wildcard game 2 years ago. He needs to be upgraded and probably will be in the upcoming draft.

As for Gay, I think we have our future replacement for him in the likes of Lewis and Burnett. Problem is they are still rookies who's minds are spinning to get the call right......by next season I expect to see them play better as the game slows down.
I don't know.. do you really think that as a backup... he needs to be upgraded? How many other backups can play both safety positions in the way our safeties play in this system at the level he does?

I know, he blew a tackle and was ran away from last game. But I am also seen him come through the line and blow up run plays... play well at safety, etc. I think we may keep him for another year or two, until we start grooming a safety to take over for Troy when he retires... (Figure about a 3 year grooming for Troy's position and style).
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Old 12-25-2009, 10:17 AM   #29
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Default Re: Arians deserving?

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I don't know.. do you really think that as a backup... he needs to be upgraded? How many other backups can play both safety positions in the way our safeties play in this system at the level he does?

I know, he blew a tackle and was ran away from last game. But I am also seen him come through the line and blow up run plays... play well at safety, etc. I think we may keep him for another year or two, until we start grooming a safety to take over for Troy when he retires... (Figure about a 3 year grooming for Troy's position and style).
Tyronne Carter absolutely needs to be upgraded. I may be incorrect but I believe TC has started 12 games for the Steelers this season. Out of those 12 games he has only looked good in 1 of them and that was the Denver game. IMO he was totally exposed in the other 11 games.

So what you are saying is that you are very comfortable when Troy goes down again and have TC starting in this secondary. I get the whole backup argument you are saying, but you can't sit there and tell me that TC is the best backup option available after this season. I know you can't replace Troy and I am not asking for that in a backup, but I am asking for a backup that can come in and at least act like he belongs out there. Sorry but I don't see that with TC. And yes TC is part of the secondary problem we have seen all season.

And for the record, I don't see how Ryan Mundy can not play any worse than TC has played this season.
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Old 12-25-2009, 05:18 PM   #30
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Tyronne Carter absolutely needs to be upgraded. I may be incorrect but I believe TC has started 12 games for the Steelers this season. Out of those 12 games he has only looked good in 1 of them and that was the Denver game. IMO he was totally exposed in the other 11 games.

So what you are saying is that you are very comfortable when Troy goes down again and have TC starting in this secondary. I get the whole backup argument you are saying, but you can't sit there and tell me that TC is the best backup option available after this season. I know you can't replace Troy and I am not asking for that in a backup, but I am asking for a backup that can come in and at least act like he belongs out there. Sorry but I don't see that with TC. And yes TC is part of the secondary problem we have seen all season.

And for the record, I don't see how Ryan Mundy can not play any worse than TC has played this season.
Actually, he was our best CB on the field during the Browns game. He played decently ever since he came in for Troy P. Last game, after watching it again, he was exposed on that pass through the middle. However, all in all, I hear year after year how he sucks, and year after year, he still seems to make the team. Why?

don't forget, our SS's don't play like safeties. They are required to play almost like LB's. How many backup safeties can play the position like that?

I'm not saying TC is a great safety or even the best in the league as a backup. Only that he fits our system and the best back up safety FOR US.

Sadly, you can thank Anthony Smith for TC's remaining here. Had AS come of age, he would have taken TC's place a year or two ago, and would be moving tino the starting spot thi year if not last.
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