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Old 01-12-2010, 08:58 AM   #1
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Default Relative to other QB's, how much film study do you think Ben does?

Most of us have seen the 2005 highlight film in which Ben comes to the sideline and Cowher asks him, "What did you read there?" and Ben replies, "Two deep." then Cowher tells him he's wrong and starts to explain it to him. You would think Ben would have progressed in his defense reading capacity. Yet he seems to make slower reads than a lot of the elite QB's do. He's obviously athletically gifted, and when he's asked to make quick throws or has tons of time to make his read (like whenever he buys time by scrambling) he does well, but stick him in there against a team that pressures him like Philly, and he doesn't seem to be able to make quick reads. it cost us 350 yards in sacks last year (that and o-line breakdowns), and I'm just wondering if you are fine with how he has progressed, or do you think, like I do, that he doesn't really do all that much film study and just relies on his ability to buy time? (sorry for the rambling question)

This is not a Ben bashing attempt, because I think he's an exceptional QB, I'm just wondering if he can be better. Obviously, nobody knows for sure, I'm looking for speculation here.
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Old 01-12-2010, 09:30 AM   #2
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Default Re: Relative to other QB's, how much film study do you think Ben does?

I'm sorry, but you can't throw at roughly 70% accuracy and throw more than twice as many TD's as INT's, not to mention having a 100 QBR in this league without being able to read a defense. This seems like just another excuse made up by people running out of excuses as to why Ben holds the ball too long.

If you watch him in the pocket, he is reading the defense. He goes through his reads as long as he has time, and then some. I just don't understand this obsession with ripping up every little thing about the team because they went 9-7 this year. He's just a gunslinger, and he'd rather hold the ball as long as possible rather than throw it away. That's really all there is to it.

Also, is there now some concern that Ben is NOT a student of the game? Because, again, you simply cannot put up numbers like he does without doing due diligence. I'm sure he watches as much film as any other top-flight NFL QB.
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Old 01-12-2010, 10:14 AM   #3
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Default Re: Relative to other QB's, how much film study do you think Ben does?

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Originally Posted by revefsreleets View Post
I'm sorry, but you can't throw at roughly 70% accuracy and throw more than twice as many TD's as INT's, not to mention having a 100 QBR in this league without being able to read a defense. This seems like just another excuse made up by people running out of excuses as to why Ben holds the ball too long.

If you watch him in the pocket, he is reading the defense. He goes through his reads as long as he has time, and then some. I just don't understand this obsession with ripping up every little thing about the team because they went 9-7 this year. He's just a gunslinger, and he'd rather hold the ball as long as possible rather than throw it away. That's really all there is to it.

Also, is there now some concern that Ben is NOT a student of the game? Because, again, you simply cannot put up numbers like he does without doing due diligence. I'm sure he watches as much film as any other top-flight NFL QB.
very well said
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Old 01-12-2010, 10:32 AM   #4
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Default Re: Relative to other QB's, how much film study do you think Ben does?

On that tip-toe TD by Wallace... Ben was on his what, 5th read?

Or maybe Wallace was his first read, but Ben forgot how to play QB.
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Old 01-12-2010, 11:12 AM   #5
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Default Re: Relative to other QB's, how much film study do you think Ben does?

I happen to know for a fact that Ben studies hard. I was at a restaurant last year and I heard the people next to me whispering something. I looked up and they were pointing, so I turned and there was Ben and Larry Ziering having dinner two tables down from me. Both had their noses in what looked like a paperback book . I can only assume Ben was studying the blocking schemes of the o'line. He sure looked interested. Larry kept pointing and I think I heard him say, "look at those."

Blitz schemes?

That's why I figured I wouldn't bother them.

What dedication.
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Old 01-12-2010, 11:21 AM   #6
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Default Re: Relative to other QB's, how much film study do you think Ben does?



How much does Ben study film? Enough.

He holds on to the ball for so long because that's Ben.
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Old 01-12-2010, 11:28 AM   #7
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Default Re: Relative to other QB's, how much film study do you think Ben does?

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Originally Posted by revefsreleets View Post
I'm sorry, but you can't throw at roughly 70% accuracy and throw more than twice as many TD's as INT's, not to mention having a 100 QBR in this league without being able to read a defense. This seems like just another excuse made up by people running out of excuses as to why Ben holds the ball too long.

If you watch him in the pocket, he is reading the defense. He goes through his reads as long as he has time, and then some. I just don't understand this obsession with ripping up every little thing about the team because they went 9-7 this year. He's just a gunslinger, and he'd rather hold the ball as long as possible rather than throw it away. That's really all there is to it.

Also, is there now some concern that Ben is NOT a student of the game? Because, again, you simply cannot put up numbers like he does without doing due diligence. I'm sure he watches as much film as any other top-flight NFL QB.
If you're gonna quote stats, then you have to quote them all. You have to include getting sacked and giving up interceptions that get returned for TD's.

Since a QB that gets sacked loses a down and the yards that go with it, and one who gets picked off and the interception is returned for a TD gives up 6 points, I wondered which QB was most effective if the sacks were treated as an incomplete pass (which they essentially are) the sack yardage was subtracted from the QB's passing total, and a QB given up when he throws a pick 6 or gets stripped and it's returned for a TD is subtracted from his TD total. Here are the adjusted QB ratings:

1. Brees 104.6
2. Favre 99.1
3. Rivers 98.0
4. P. Manning 97.5
5. Schaub 93.6
6. Rodgers 92.5
7. Brady 92.3
8. Romo 90.6
9. Warner 87.7
10. Roethlisberger 87.2
11. E. Manning 86.4
12. McNabb 83.9
13. Flacco 81.3
14. Orton 81.2
15. Young 79.5
16. Campbell 77.1
17. Palmer 76.0
18. Garrard 75.6
19. A. Smith 74.9
20. Ryan 71.9
21. Cutler 70.9
22. Henne 68.9
23. Hasselbeck 68.3
24. Bulger 65.8
25. Cassell 62.7
26. Fitzpatrick 60.6
27. Quinn 59.9
28.Sanchez 55.4
29. Freeman 54.8
30. Stafford 52.1
31. Delhomme 51.3
32. Russell 44.7


Because, the 70% completion percentage would look better to some of us if it was 65% with fewer sacks given up and yards lost. I know that he goes through his progressions, but at that point it's simply a matter of looking for an open receiver. Where the problem lies is at the line as the QB is dropping back. The quicker he reads what defense is coming at him, the quicker he gets rid of the ball to the right receiver. So, either he's not reading the defense quickly, or our receivers aren't getting open, and I don't believe that our receivers aren't getting open.

And, by the way, IT'S NOT RIPPING THE TEAM! It's a matter of "how can Ben and this team improve"?
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Old 01-12-2010, 11:29 AM   #8
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Default Re: Relative to other QB's, how much film study do you think Ben does?

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Originally Posted by OneForTheToe View Post
Both had their noses in what looked like a paperback book . I can only assume Ben was studying the blocking schemes of the o'line. He sure looked interested. Larry kept pointing and I think I heard him say, "look at those."

Blitz schemes?

That's why I figured I wouldn't bother them.

What dedication.
he was pointing at bewbs. they were reading a porn mag.
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Old 01-12-2010, 11:34 AM   #9
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Default Re: Relative to other QB's, how much film study do you think Ben does?

Vrabinec, you're argument is terribly specious, I'm afraid.

If you're going to quote statistics like sacksand their relativity to an incomplete pass, I thought you'd include two quite relative points.

1) Big Ben says himself that a sack is better than an INT, as such, sometimes just accepts he will be going down instead of just throwing up and hoping. Yes, he still throws picks, but the point should be made.

2) Which brings me to my second point. Equating a sack to an incomplete pass is ludicrous, they are both bad things to happen, but very different.
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Old 01-12-2010, 11:38 AM   #10
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Default Re: Relative to other QB's, how much film study do you think Ben does?

Not as much film as Brady.

At least not if you count gay porn.
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