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Old 02-01-2010, 09:49 AM   #21
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Default Re: "all we would need to do is leave people alone"

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The only reason they stayed neutral in WW2 is they secretly collaborated with the Nazis. Spineless appeasers. I'll pass on being like them.
The Swiss hated the nazis. The reason the nazis didn't invade is because the Swiss pointed out they'd lose their officer corps in the process.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl.../halbrook.html
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Old 02-01-2010, 09:51 AM   #22
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Default Re: "all we would need to do is leave people alone"

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youve got some good points mom....but a few probs with the swiss scenario. i have a bit of first hand with a country set up like that. S Korea is essentially the same. they have what they call "rock drops" and "side drops" set up on all main MSRs. meaning pre rigged explosives in overpasses and whatnot to blow if NK goes all crazy. plus all men mandatory either go KATUSA or seve in ROCK army for 2 years. those cats are bad ass. the catch is this.......both swiss and SK know they wouldnt last without US support. they count on it. SK direclty and swiss indirectly. plus both countries have way less of population and geography to cover. SK is size of Indiana, and I think, swiss is smaller.

big difference trying to establish the same strategy here. plus making service mandatory would never fly. left and libertarians would kill it due to constitutional freedoms. which is funny cause the left would love to make community service mandatory. go figure. i think the constitutionality of it would be a no go. kinda like making it mandatory to vote. that aint gonna work either. dont get me wrong i would love to see some kind of mandatory service, but the constitutionality of it.......not sure.
Yes, I know a program like that would never fly in the US now. That's kind of why I said "ideally" and stated that the country is too far gone right now to be brought back. Our government and liberals have concerned themselves completely with what is happening outside of the country instead of trying to fix things within first. It's a terrible cycle and will never get us anywhere.

And yes, while Switzerland is small, they have nearly as many conscript citizens trained in boot camps, armed, and ready to go as the US has active and reserve military personnel. The US obviously has more people who WOULD be fit for military service....but out of over 118 million people, the active and reserve army only consists of 3 million. Can you imagine how much other countries would not F with us if boot camp and keeping yourself armed were mandatory. And beyond that, can you imagine how much the national crime rate would drop if every thug and criminal knew that Janie REALLY does have a gun?

As far as Libertarians being against mandatory military service...yes they, myself included, are. This is not about mandatory military service though. This is about a conscript militia that would be ready to go to defend home soil from foreign (and domestic) attack. They would not be called upon to serve in foreign wars.

Last edited by SteelCityMom; 02-01-2010 at 10:07 AM.
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Old 02-01-2010, 09:52 AM   #23
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Default Re: "all we would need to do is leave people alone"

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The Swiss hated the nazis. The reason the nazis didn't invade is because the Swiss pointed out they'd lose their officer corps in the process.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl.../halbrook.html
Thank you for posting that, I was looking for a bit of info to back up his claim (since he didn't) and couldn't find anything outside of a few random blogs.
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Old 02-01-2010, 09:55 AM   #24
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Default Re: "all we would need to do is leave people alone"

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The only reason they stayed neutral in WW2 is they secretly collaborated with the Nazis. Spineless appeasers. I'll pass on being like them.

Their government is also known for extreme meddling in church affairs. I prefer to live in a free country, but that's just me.
I never said I wanted to have their government. Sorry if I made it sound like that. A direct democracy is definitely NOT the way to go in this country...even though the fact that we are a representative republic gets swept under the rug by most liberals lol.
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Old 02-01-2010, 10:24 AM   #25
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Default Re: "all we would need to do is leave people alone"

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Yes, I know a program like that would never fly in the US now. That's kind of why I said "ideally" and stated that the country is too far gone right now to be brought back. Our government and liberals have concerned themselves completely with what is happening outside of the country instead of trying to fix things within first. It's a terrible cycle and will never get us anywhere.

And yes, while Switzerland is small, they have nearly as many conscript citizens trained in boot camps, armed, and ready to go as the US has active and reserve military personnel. The US obviously has more people who WOULD be fit for military service....but out of over 118 million people, the active and reserve army only consists of 3 million. Can you imagine how much other countries would not F with us if boot camp and keeping yourself armed were mandatory. And beyond that, can you imagine how much the national crime rate would drop if every thug and criminal knew that Janie REALLY does have a gun?

As far as Libertarians being against mandatory military service...yes they, myself included, are. This is not about mandatory military service though. This is about a conscript militia that would be ready to go to defend home soil from foreign (and domestic) attack. They would not be called upon to serve in foreign wars.

good points mom...but like i said SK is kinda the same way.....number of conscripts, military, arms, (except for the mandatory arming).....but they know without our backing, they would be wiped out if NK really wanted to go. swiss would end up being the same way if a major force went in. now it would end up like Iraq after the invasion with insurgents, but there military would be waxed.....kinda like the pols circa WW2.

we have the numbers, and your right about the mandatory service, but you cant make conscription or arms mandatory either. goes against the constitution. plus....nobody messes with us now. not on the homefront. and nobody, prob, ever will. on the homefront. but they will continue to screw with our global interests forever.
your right, you did say ideal. ideals are great, but usually just dreams and unicorns. i wish ideals won out, but thats against human nature also. as far as setting up the conscripts for just homeland defense.....thats been discussed, making the NG be what its supposed to be and putting it under the Dept of homeland defense. i like that idea.

ps. did you see our boys smakc the wings in that shootout yesterday? reminds me of last year....the good ol days.
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Old 02-01-2010, 10:39 AM   #26
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Default Re: "all we would need to do is leave people alone"

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good points mom...but like i said SK is kinda the same way.....number of conscripts, military, arms, (except for the mandatory arming).....but they know without our backing, they would be wiped out if NK really wanted to go. swiss would end up being the same way if a major force went in. now it would end up like Iraq after the invasion with insurgents, but there military would be waxed.....kinda like the pols circa WW2.
Yeah, I know what you're saying, but during WWII, not even the Nazi's wanted to mess with the Swiss, and this was before the US got involved. They attacked the French, the English, the Pols and Russia without a second thought. They figured out that the Swiss would be virtually impossible to get by though. It's a small country, but geographically...they have the perfect setup for defensive strikes.

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we have the numbers, and your right about the mandatory service, but you cant make conscription or arms mandatory either. goes against the constitution. plus....nobody messes with us now. not on the homefront. and nobody, prob, ever will. on the homefront. but they will continue to screw with our global interests forever.
your right, you did say ideal. ideals are great, but usually just dreams and unicorns. i wish ideals won out, but thats against human nature also. as far as setting up the conscripts for just homeland defense.....thats been discussed, making the NG be what its supposed to be and putting it under the Dept of homeland defense. i like that idea.
No, I know it's unconstitutional. I just get tired of people droning on about national security and protecting home soil, and then not doing anything about it. I do think most gun laws are unconstitutional as well though, and if they were done away with, most citizens would be armed. I just think anyone who is a true patriot should have some sort of gun training and possibly military training as well. The founding fathers were very much in support of a well organized militia, and that ideal seems to have gone to the way side in the 20th and 21st century.

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ps. did you see our boys smakc the wings in that shootout yesterday? reminds me of last year....the good ol days.
Lol, of course I did...watching Kronwall injure himself trying to hit Staal (i think?) made me giggle an evil little giggle.
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Old 02-01-2010, 10:40 AM   #27
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Default Re: "all we would need to do is leave people alone"

First off, this whole utopian "live and let live" nonsense is childishly naive. It's not even worth rehashing.

Secondly, and much more importantly, the whole basis of continued US domination is based on destabilizing enemies. We can actually win wars even if we "lose them" simply by poking around in regions where big blocs of power could form against us. So the notion of "leaving people alone" is basically not only completely at odds with US policy and doctrine, it's also probably the worst and most ignorant action (or lack thereof) we could possible take.

And for anyone who actually thinks there is some emerging power that would "rule" more benignly, please point out which Country that might be...
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Old 02-01-2010, 11:14 AM   #28
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Default Re: "all we would need to do is leave people alone"

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First off, this whole utopian "live and let live" nonsense is childishly naive. It's not even worth rehashing.

Secondly, and much more importantly, the whole basis of continued US domination is based on destabilizing enemies. We can actually win wars even if we "lose them" simply by poking around in regions where big blocs of power could form against us. So the notion of "leaving people alone" is basically not only completely at odds with US policy and doctrine, it's also probably the worst and most ignorant action (or lack thereof) we could possible take.

And for anyone who actually thinks there is some emerging power that would "rule" more benignly, please point out which Country that might be...
well said....well said. utopian dreams are that....dreams.

what people dont seem to understand is that if we didnt do the destabilization in a lot of instances with different countries...we prob wouldve fought a lot more wars....
cuba wouldve had nukes back in the day....iran wouldve conquered quite a large swath of the ME, all just to mention a few.

now, what gets me is people want us to be isolationists, like we used to be in the past, but that didnt work either. stay out of other peoples business.....until theirs a genocide or other countrys are treating their people badly, but dont do it for our interests or our people. keep our money home to feed and cloth our people.....until their is another country that cant feed or clothe its people.

no perfect world....you do what ya can and make the best decisions as they come
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Old 02-01-2010, 01:15 PM   #29
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Default Re: "all we would need to do is leave people alone"

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Originally Posted by Godfather View Post
The only reason they stayed neutral in WW2 is they secretly collaborated with the Nazis. Spineless appeasers. I'll pass on being like them.

Their government is also known for extreme meddling in church affairs. I prefer to live in a free country, but that's just me.
Just grazes the surface, but well said all the same.

Thank god (or whatever) for the U.S.A. The World would be a lot worse place without American intervention and invention through the years. Yeah we made our share of mistakes, backed the wrong horse more than once no question. But we still get it right most of the time, and generally use our power with compassion and good intent.

Ugly American, out.
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Old 02-01-2010, 01:16 PM   #30
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Default Re: "all we would need to do is leave people alone"

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well said....well said. utopian dreams are that....dreams.

what people dont seem to understand is that if we didnt do the destabilization in a lot of instances with different countries...we prob wouldve fought a lot more wars....
cuba wouldve had nukes back in the day....iran wouldve conquered quite a large swath of the ME, all just to mention a few.

now, what gets me is people want us to be isolationists, like we used to be in the past, but that didnt work either. stay out of other peoples business.....until theirs a genocide or other countrys are treating their people badly, but dont do it for our interests or our people. keep our money home to feed and cloth our people.....until their is another country that cant feed or clothe its people.

no perfect world....you do what ya can and make the best decisions as they come
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