Why register with the Steelers Fever Forums?
 • Intelligent and friendly discussions.
 • It's free and it's quick. Always.
 • Enter events in the forums calendar.
 • Very user friendly software.
 • Exclusive contests and giveaways.

 Donate to Steelers Fever, Click here
 Our 2013 Goal: $400.00 - To Date: $00.00 (00.00%)
 Home | Forums | Editorials | Shop | Tickets | Downloads | Contact Pittsburgh Steelers Forum Feed Not Just Fans. Hardcore Fans.

Go Back   Steelers Fever Forums > Miscellaneous > Locker Room


Steelers Fever Fan Shop

Doc's Sports Get FREE NFL Picks and College Football picks as well as Football Lines like live NFL Lines and updated NFL Power Rankings all at Doc's Sports Service.

Steelers Steelers - Giants Giants
August 9th, 2014, 7:30pmET

CBS
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-16-2010, 07:39 AM   #1
Vincent
Team President
Supporter
 
Vincent's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: People's Republic of North Carolina
Posts: 2,485
Member Number: 10927
Thanks: 13
Thanked 8 Times in 6 Posts
Default House may try to pass Senate health-care bill without voting on it

In what might be the penultimate act of cowardice and deceit, pelosi aims to rubber stamp the bill she has neither the votes for nor the will of the people. If the elephants had a ball among them, this could be real fun to watch. But it won't be.

The visceral reaction to this assault on the constitution is anger, and a legitimate call for severe action. That would play directly into their hands. The "Cloward–Piven" strategy is at the center of this White House's game plan. They do the outrageous things they do to provoke frustration and desperation for the purpose of inciting revolution.

The rational approach is what is quietly happening right now, and very surprisingly under "the media's" radar - passage of state legislation to block implementation of obamacare. 30 states are in process. When that comes to a head, the federalies will try to impose their will on the states, obamacare will be deemed unconstitutional, and the donkeys will be relegated to their own private nuclear winter.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...503742_pf.html
House may try to pass Senate health-care bill without voting on it

By Lori Montgomery and Paul Kane
Washington Post Staff Writers
Tuesday, March 16, 2010; A01

After laying the groundwork for a decisive vote this week on the Senate's health-care bill, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi suggested Monday that she might attempt to pass the measure without having members vote on it.

Instead, Pelosi (D-Calif.) would rely on a procedural sleight of hand: The House would vote on a more popular package of fixes to the Senate bill; under the House rule for that vote, passage would signify that lawmakers "deem" the health-care bill to be passed.

The tactic -- known as a "self-executing rule" or a "deem and pass" -- has been commonly used, although never to pass legislation as momentous as the $875 billion health-care bill. It is one of three options that Pelosi said she is considering for a late-week House vote, but she added that she prefers it because it would politically protect lawmakers who are reluctant to publicly support the measure.

"It's more insider and process-oriented than most people want to know," the speaker said in a roundtable discussion with bloggers Monday. "But I like it," she said, "because people don't have to vote on the Senate bill."
Un-@#$%ing-believable - editor
Republicans quickly condemned the strategy, framing it as an effort to avoid responsibility for passing the legislation, and some suggested that Pelosi's plan would be unconstitutional.

"It's very painful and troubling to see the gymnastics through which they are going to avoid accountability," Rep. David Dreier (Calif.), the senior Republican on the House Rules Committee, told reporters. "And I hope very much that, at the end of the day, that if we are going to have a vote, we will have a clean up-or-down vote that will allow the American people to see who is supporting this Senate bill and who is not supporting this Senate bill."

House leaders have worked for days to round up support for the legislation, but the Senate measure has drawn fierce opposition from a broad spectrum of members. Antiabortion Democrats say it would permit federal funding for abortion, liberals oppose its tax on high-cost insurance plans, and Republicans say the measure overreaches and is too expensive.

Some senior lawmakers have acknowledged in recent days that Democrats lack the votes for passage. Pelosi, however, predicted Monday that she would deliver.

"When we have a bill, then we will let you know about the votes. But when we bring the bill to the floor, we will have the votes," she told reporters.

Pelosi said Monday that House Democrats have yet to decide how to approach the vote. But she added that any strategy involving a separate vote on the Senate bill "isn't too popular," and aides said the leadership is likely to bow to the wishes of its rank and file.

As Pelosi and other congressional leaders pressed wavering lawmakers, President Obama highlighted how close the result may be as he focused his attention Monday on Rep. Dennis Kucinich (D-Ohio), who has been a stalwart no vote on health-care reform.

Kucinich, an uncompromising liberal, has rejected any measure without a government-run insurance plan. Obama invited Kucinich to join him aboard Air Force One for a trip to suburban Cleveland, where the president made a plea for reform, the third such pitch in eight days.

As he addressed a crowd of more than 1,400, Obama repeatedly called on lawmakers to summon the "courage to pass the far-reaching package." He painted the existing insurance system as a nightmare for millions of American who cannot afford quality coverage.

The president lashed out at Republican critics who have argued that the health-care initiative would undermine Medicare, and he argued that the measure would end "the worst practices" of insurance companies.

"I don't know about the politics, but I know what's the right thing to do," he said, nearly shouting as the crowd cheered. "And so I'm calling on Congress to pass these reforms -- and I'm going to sign them into law. I want some courage. I want us to do the right thing."

Asked whether he was reconsidering his position, Kucinich demurred. But Sen. Sherrod Brown (D-Ohio) said Kucinich is coming under intense pressure from Ohioans who want Congress to act, and from his colleagues in Washington.

"All of us -- the governor, the congressional delegation, the president -- are making clear to Dennis that we won't have another chance for a decade if this doesn't happen," Brown said.

Persuading liberals such as Kucinich to support the Senate bill is critical to the Democratic strategy, which has been rewritten since January, when Democrats lost their supermajority in the Senate. The Senate Democratic caucus, reduced to 59 seats, lost its ability to override Republican filibusters and soon abandoned plans to pass a revised version of the health-care bill that would reflect a compromise with House leaders.

As House leaders looked for a path that could get the Senate legislation through the chamber and onto Obama's desk, conservatives warned that Pelosi's use of deem-and-pass in this way would run afoul of the Constitution. They pointed to a 1998 Supreme Court ruling that said each house of Congress must approve the exact same text of a bill before it can become law. A self-executing rule sidesteps that requirement, former federal appellate judge Michael McConnell argued in a Wall Street Journal op-ed.

Democrats were also struggling Monday to put the finishing touches on the package of fixes. Under reconciliation rules, it is protected from filibusters and could pass the Senate with only 50 votes, but can include only provisions that would affect the budget.

Democratic leaders learned over the weekend that they may not be able to include a number of favored items, including some Republican proposals to stem fraud in federal health-care programs and a plan to weaken a new board that would be empowered to cut Medicare payments.

Rep. Chris Van Hollen (Md.), the Democratic leader tasked with protecting politically vulnerable incumbents, said Republicans would twist the nature of the health-care vote, no matter how the leadership proceeds. He defended the deem-and-pass strategy as a way "to make it clear we're amending the Senate bill."

Without that approach, Van Hollen warned, "people are going to try to create the impression that the Senate bill is the final product, and it's not."

Undecided Democrats appeared unconcerned by the flap. Rep. Bart Gordon (D-Tenn.), a retiring lawmaker who opposed the original House bill and is undecided on the new package, mocked Republican criticism of the process. Ultimately, he said, voters will hold lawmakers responsible for any changes in law.

"I don't think anybody's going to say that we didn't vote for the bill," he said.

Staff writer Peter Slevin in Ohio contributed to this report.
__________________

"We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress & the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution,
but overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution."

Abraham Lincoln
Vincent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2010, 07:47 AM   #2
GBMelBlount
Living Legend
Supporter
 
GBMelBlount's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Western PA
Posts: 6,203
Gender: Male
Member Number: 5140
Thanks: 1,138
Thanked 2,063 Times in 945 Posts
Default Re: House may try to pass Senate health-care bill without voting on it

Quote:
Instead, Pelosi (D-Calif.) would rely on a procedural sleight of hand: The House would vote on a more popular package of fixes to the Senate bill; under the House rule for that vote, passage would signify that lawmakers "deem" the health-care bill to be passed.

The tactic -- known as a "self-executing rule" or a "deem and pass" -- has been commonly used, although never to pass legislation as momentous as the $875 billion health-care bill. It is one of three options that Pelosi said she is considering for a late-week House vote, but she added that she prefers it because it would politically protect lawmakers who are reluctant to publicly support the measure.
Can you really blame her for using every means necessary to force through something she strongly believes in, whether the means is very ethical or not?

I would imagine this has been done by both parties.

The real question for me is regardless of party, should this "self-executing rule" be allowed in the first place?
__________________
If I could be like that,
what would I do,
What would I do..."

~ 3 Doors Down

GBMelBlount is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2010, 08:01 AM   #3
Vincent
Team President
Supporter
 
Vincent's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: People's Republic of North Carolina
Posts: 2,485
Member Number: 10927
Thanks: 13
Thanked 8 Times in 6 Posts
Default Re: House may try to pass Senate health-care bill without voting on it

Quote:
Originally Posted by GBMelBlount View Post
Can you really blame her for using every means necessary to force through something she strongly believes in, whether the means is very ethical or not?

I would imagine this has been done by both parties.

The real question for me is regardless of party, should this "self-executing rule" be allowed in the first place?
That's very charitable of you GB.

We're not talking about reupping a school bus program here. We're talking about seizing 1/6 of the economy against the will of the people.



This is key to the marxist POS' strategy to destroy capitalism, and this country.

Let them do it. It'll be the demise of that party. And the pendulum will swing hard to the right.
__________________

"We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress & the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution,
but overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution."

Abraham Lincoln
Vincent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2010, 08:15 AM   #4
GBMelBlount
Living Legend
Supporter
 
GBMelBlount's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Western PA
Posts: 6,203
Gender: Male
Member Number: 5140
Thanks: 1,138
Thanked 2,063 Times in 945 Posts
Default Re: House may try to pass Senate health-care bill without voting on it

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent View Post
That's very charitable of you GB.

We're not talking about reupping a school bus program here. We're talking about seizing 1/6 of the economy against the will of the people.



This is key to the marxist POS' strategy to destroy capitalism, and this country.

Let them do it. It'll be the demise of that party. And the pendulum will swing hard to the right.
My point is simply this Vincent, if the government is doing things that are arguably unethical and backhanded, is it now wrong because of the "scale" to which this is being abused?

Should this rule even be in place.

Tony has made the excellent point that capitalism, when completely unchecked, can very bad.

So I am asking a similar and broad question, really, about the government in this particular case.
__________________
If I could be like that,
what would I do,
What would I do..."

~ 3 Doors Down

GBMelBlount is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2010, 09:31 AM   #5
GBMelBlount
Living Legend
Supporter
 
GBMelBlount's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Western PA
Posts: 6,203
Gender: Male
Member Number: 5140
Thanks: 1,138
Thanked 2,063 Times in 945 Posts
Default Re: House may try to pass Senate health-care bill without voting on it

Oh, and another thing I forgot...and this sort of dovetails with my first post.

If I'm not mistaken, Pelosi was very vocal about the culture of corruption when republicans were in office. In fact, didn't she promise to not only end the corruption in Washington, but usher in a new era of ethics and transparency which all fit in nicely with the brilliant "change" slogan for Obama's campaign.

So fact that Pelosi is using this "slight of hand" per se, is even more interesting now imo...
__________________
If I could be like that,
what would I do,
What would I do..."

~ 3 Doors Down

GBMelBlount is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2010, 10:14 AM   #6
Indo
Head Coach
 
Indo's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: nowhere Alabama
Posts: 1,744
Gender: Male
Member Number: 11222
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: House may try to pass Senate health-care bill without voting on it

Oh yay.


Well, maybe Vincent's right---it will be deemed Unconstitutional (when has Pelosi actually EVER paid attention to the Constitution?)
It's more than a little concerning, though, because it will go to the Supreme Court (I'm guessing) where Obaaaaamie has plenty of friends...
__________________
... I firmly believe that any man's finest hour...is that moment when he has to work his heart out in a good cause and he's exhausted on the field of battle - victorious.
--Vince Lombardi
Indo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2010, 11:39 AM   #7
Godfather
Living Legend
Supporter
 

Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,140
Member Number: 547
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: House may try to pass Senate health-care bill without voting on it

Quote:
Originally Posted by Indo View Post
Oh yay.


Well, maybe Vincent's right---it will be deemed Unconstitutional (when has Pelosi actually EVER paid attention to the Constitution?)
It's more than a little concerning, though, because it will go to the Supreme Court (I'm guessing) where Obaaaaamie has plenty of friends...
I'm afraid it won't be struck down, at least not on tnose grounds. Each house of Congress is free to set its own rules and the argument would be that the judicial branch has no say over parliamentary maneuvers. In fact, we have a recent precedent--Hastert and DeLay broke House rules to get Medicare Part D passed but it doesn't matter because it was a parliamentary procedure issue.
Godfather is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2010, 01:33 PM   #8
MACH1
Quest For Seven
Supporter
 
MACH1's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Potataho
Posts: 13,902
Member Number: 3236
Thanks: 1,482
Thanked 4,406 Times in 1,650 Posts
Default Re: House may try to pass Senate health-care bill without voting on it

Not only are they cutting their own throats if they pass it they're cutting ours too. Everybody's taking a ride on a sinking ship.
__________________


ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
MACH1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2010, 06:39 PM   #9
Vincent
Team President
Supporter
 
Vincent's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: People's Republic of North Carolina
Posts: 2,485
Member Number: 10927
Thanks: 13
Thanked 8 Times in 6 Posts
Default Re: House may try to pass Senate health-care bill without voting on it

Quote:
Originally Posted by MACH1 View Post
Not only are they cutting their own throats if they pass it they're cutting ours too. Everybody's taking a ride on a sinking ship.
I think this might reveal a clue.

OK, OK. Common sense tells us that these fools are hellbent to pass "something", anything they can call "health care". Forget the "details"; they're not important. The only thing that matters is that they can "pass" something "called" "health care". Doesn't matter what it costs. Don't have a clue what it means. It just by hell or whatever must be "passed" without further delay. @#$% your careers. @#$% the budget. @#$% the country.

Is there anybody "out there" so ignorant, stupid, incapacitated, or whatever that actually believes this is about "health care"? And if you do, is it really a "good' idea to trust your health to these lunatics?
__________________

"We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress & the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution,
but overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution."

Abraham Lincoln
Vincent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2010, 06:46 PM   #10
Vincent
Team President
Supporter
 
Vincent's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: People's Republic of North Carolina
Posts: 2,485
Member Number: 10927
Thanks: 13
Thanked 8 Times in 6 Posts
Default Re: House may try to pass Senate health-care bill without voting on it

Quote:
Originally Posted by Godfather View Post
I'm afraid it won't be struck down, at least not on tnose grounds.
30 states, so far, are preparing to tell the federalies to go @#$% themselves on this. States don't do that because they merely disagree. This has historic implications. What are the federalies going to do? Enforce this by force?
__________________

"We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress & the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution,
but overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution."

Abraham Lincoln
Vincent is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:28 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Shoutbox provided by vBShout v6.2.1 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.0.8 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd. Runs best on HiVelocity Hosting.
Navbar with Avatar by Motorradforum
no new posts