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Old 04-17-2010, 05:36 PM   #21
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Default Re: Ask the card-carrying socialists: Is Obama one of them?

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Here's a question for the Brain Trust. Who is at the top of the mafia food chain in the US?
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Old 04-17-2010, 11:02 PM   #22
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Default Re: Ask the card-carrying socialists: Is Obama one of them?

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I get your point, and I know that Socialism is basically nothing but an offshoot of Communism. But their ideals and the way the two systems are run are quite different, as are the people who claim either side as their political affiliation.
As marx created the disease, let us frame discussion of the disease around his stated views. With no respect intended to marx, he said that socialism was to displace capitalism en route to communism. They are not "off shoots" of each other or mutually exclusive in any way. They are two points on the same continuum. Communism is the totalitarian implementation of socialism.
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Old 04-17-2010, 11:12 PM   #23
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Default Re: Ask the card-carrying socialists: Is Obama one of them?

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As marx created the disease, let us frame discussion of the disease around his stated views. With no respect intended to marx, he said that socialism was to displace capitalism en route to communism. They are not "off shoots" of each other or mutually exclusive in any way. They are two points on the same continuum. Communism is the totalitarian implementation of socialism.
Right, I know what you mean...and wasn't disagreeing with that part of your thinking. But Socialist and Communist...over the years...have become two different entities altogether. The founder of the ideals (Marx) may have meant for them to flow into each other, but as far as the political parties today who implement their policies...they don't feel like they do anymore. That's why communist would be offended to be called a socialist like Hitler was. Political parties change over time and drift away from each other quite often.
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Old 04-17-2010, 11:45 PM   #24
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Default Re: Ask the card-carrying socialists: Is Obama one of them?

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That's why communists would be offended to be called a socialist like Hitler was.
You hit on a very good point Madam. While all the European socialists were calling each other pretenders back in the 30s, Uncle Joe surveyed socialism's malaise and sought to distance his regime as the higher distillation of socialism. He coined the term "fascist" to brand the nazis and Italians as lesser socialist regimes not fit to be considered along side the purity of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. That Joe was such a stitch!

And being the rubes we are, we've misused the term ever since.
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Old 04-18-2010, 03:30 AM   #25
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Default Re: Ask the card-carrying socialists: Is Obama one of them?

I'd just like to quickly point out that the $500 hammer which Mr. Quagliaroli mentioned is a Reagan-era reference... you know, the Republican god of smaller government and privatization. I guess those ideas didn't work out too well there.

Also, before he died, Marx said quite clearly "I am not a Marxist." This was not only a sign of wit on his part, but I think it supports the claims of some who say that Marx was more of a critic working firmly within the realm of capitalism, rather than a full-blown communist like his cohort Engels. It's an odd point to make, but it might interest some.

Finally, doesn't it seem like all of our arguing about economic systems is useless filler designed to make us feel like we know something? Some variety of state capitalism is the rule here and everywhere else in the world. Costs are socialized, benefits are privatized, and economies are planned, not "free".

Normally military spending is the primary engine (us), but sometimes it's oil (OPEC nations) or some dominant cash crop (Colombia, Cuba), or government service sector industries like schools, the highway system and prisons, etc. (most of Western Europe). My only point is that all of the world's economies seem pretty planned to me, and the more planned the wealthier the nation, by and large.

That is not to say that the people in these countries are benefiting from the planning. That seems to be a completely separate issue, where you will have poorer countries with more equal wealth distribution, and richer nations that are highly stratified... or you will find the opposite. It seems to be unrelated.

The long and the short of it is that - surprise, surprise - Obama is a state capitalist.
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Old 04-18-2010, 11:38 AM   #26
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Default Re: Ask the card-carrying socialists: Is Obama one of them?

The article mentioned that the Obamacare has no single payer sytem... Wasn't that his goal from the get go and he ended up being debated out of having that in the final bill?
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Old 04-18-2010, 01:03 PM   #27
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Default Re: Ask the card-carrying socialists: Is Obama one of them?

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The article mentioned that the Obamacare has no single payer sytem... Wasn't that his goal from the get go and he ended up being debated out of having that in the final bill?
I don't remember him or his people ever once using the words "single-payer". He was supposedly considering a "public option", to compete with private insurance and thereby drive prices down, but he dropped that about five minutes after he was elected.
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Old 04-18-2010, 01:25 PM   #28
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Default Re: Ask the card-carrying socialists: Is Obama one of them?

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The long and the short of it is that - surprise, surprise - Obama is a state capitalist.
After some glue I agreed with every word of your post except this. bho is anything but a capitalist. bho is a card carrying communist that happened to be elected president of a state planned capitalist economy. Ergo the fireworks.

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I don't remember him or his people ever once using the words "single-payer". He was supposedly considering a "public option", to compete with private insurance and thereby drive prices down, but he dropped that about five minutes after he was elected.
At this stage of the saga, "single-payer" doesn't resonate, so the politburo leaves that message to the markets that accept it. A Jan Schakowsky of Illinois is the single payer loudmouth in chief.

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Old 04-18-2010, 01:29 PM   #29
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Default Re: Ask the card-carrying socialists: Is Obama one of them?

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You can tell a tree by its fruit. bho has been surrounded by communists since his “birth”. His “father” was a communist. His “mother” was a communist. His mentors were communists. He entered politics through the “new party”. http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/...was_a_new.html Everybody he appoints is either far left or outright communist.

If it quacks like a duck…
Tim Geithner: An international banker who cut his teeth at Kissinger Associates, working under Henry himself, Brent Scowcroft, and Lawrence Eagleburger. Beet-red commie, to be sure.

Robert Gates: A CIA and NSC lifer who was offered the position of United States Director of National Intelligence by none other than George W. Bush. Card-carrying Soviet, without a doubt.

Eric Holder: Represented Chiquita Banana, whom the US found to be paying the United Self-Defense Forces of Colombia to beat up and assassinate labor organizers in Colombia. They got off with a slap on the wrist. Clearly a Marxist apparatchik.

Tom Vilsack: Monsanto's best friend, and GM foods booster. So much so that he was named "Governor of the Year" by the Biotechnology Industry Organization, the lobbying arm of Monsanto, ADM and others. How do you spell "Roosky"?

Gary Locke: He's half Chinese, which makes him all-Commie in our book, right?

Ken Salazar: Homophobe and Gang of 14 Democrat. Clearly just biding his time until he gets the call from Moscow.

Kathleen Sebelius: Opposed to same-sex marriage, and "repealed a 1933 state law prohibiting civilian ownership of machine guns and other firearms restricted by the National Firearms Act of 1934." Obviously, she just wants all of the Red Party faithful in Kansas to be armed when they get the call from Premier Obama.

Ray LaHood: Just window dressing... don't be fooled.

Steven Chu: See Gary Locke above (times two!)

I'm sure there's more, but do I really need to go on? We've become the Union of Soviet American Republics!!!!!

Vincent... please.
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Old 04-18-2010, 01:30 PM   #30
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Default Re: Ask the card-carrying socialists: Is Obama one of them?

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After some glue I agreed with every word of your post except this. bho is anything but a capitalist. bho is a card carrying communist that happened to be elected as president of a state planned capitalist economy. Ergo the fireworks.
The glue works best in conjunction with some quaaludes. Trust me on this.
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