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Old 04-23-2010, 06:08 AM   #11
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Default Re: Obama's faith advisor, Rev Jim Wallis, says the HC bill is "the heart of the gosp

ricardisimo,
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As far as inflicting everyone with my opinions on Christianity in every thread, umm... well, please read the thread subject line as well as every post before mine.
Most people here are aware that I'm not much on organized religion either. But our opinions of the religion itself are immaterial to this thread.

Moving on...

What really strikes me is that we're even having this discussion. The Constitution defines the role and powers of our government, not the Bible. Asking if this particular policy is in accordance with Christian values is like asking if your tire pressure is within the limits set forth in the Betty Crocker cookbook.
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Old 04-23-2010, 06:13 AM   #12
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Default Re: Obama's faith advisor, Rev Jim Wallis, says the HC bill is "the heart of the gosp

Also, what the Hell is a "faith advisor"??
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Old 04-23-2010, 12:29 PM   #13
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Default Re: Obama's faith advisor, Rev Jim Wallis, says the HC bill is "the heart of the gosp

I gues he advises faith. For those that scream "separation of church and state," why is this guy so enamored with advising on politics? To mention, that evidently it is OKd by the big guy. He is one of his personal faith advisers. He is part of the big guy's faith based spirtual cabinet. Is he, they, getting paid by the govt? Even if not, is it ok for them to be part of advising on policy? just posing questions for discussion....
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Old 04-23-2010, 09:35 PM   #14
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Default Re: Obama's faith advisor, Rev Jim Wallis, says the HC bill is "the heart of the gosp

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I distinctly remember something about rendering unto Caesar what is Caesar's. How then is paying taxes theft? And if the government is using taxes to redistribute wealth to the poor, how is that un-Christian?

Now, if you don't mind, I'll slip back into standard ricardisimo mode, and remind everyone that there is not a single redistributionist bone in Obama's body, nor in any elected Democrat or Republican's body, and that I agree with those Christians who say that socialism is un-Christian. They are completely right. Christianity is about personal salvation, and narcissistic tendencies of mythic proportions, with an all-knowing and all-powerful deity who devotes His every waking moment to the cultivation of your eternal soul. As Nietzsche put it:

That today's Christian loathes socialism is almost in and of itself enough reason for me to embrace it.
That particular passage was a DIFFERENT context - honestly, I think Jesus may have been referring to all these modern day 501c3 churches that are yoked up with the government - for allowing their congregation members to write off offerings on their tax returns, these churches have to give up some of their 1st ammendment rights.

Yes, it goes FAR beyond churches merely not allowed to endorse political candidates. For example, in order for the pastor to be liscensed, they have to go through seminary education, and then get liscensed THROUGH the state. The church has to recognize the STATE as the one that formed it(this is very unbiblical, b/c scripture says that CHRIST is the HEAD of the church, and noone else).The IRS can also choose a form of doctrine for the church(i.e. it's no coincidence that alot of churches did studies on nonsense junk like "Purpose Driven Life", Bill Hybels, and even Beth Moore - all of whom are false teachers that are leading the ecumenical movement). They can't call out and criticize other religions(i.e. pastors, for example, can't criticize Roman Catholicism, or even Buddhism from the pulpits). And they can't preach on the 2nd Coming of Christ either. Dr. Greg Dixon lost his entire ministry in the 1980's b/c he refused to abide by IRS rules --> http://www.unregisteredbaptistfellowship.com

Anyhow, didn't mean to derail this thread, but just wanted to point out the meaning of this particular scripture. When Jesus showed the Pharisees the coin with Caesar's inscription on it, he was warning them to NOT play into a Caesar-like government's hands.

BTW - Rev Jim Wallis makes a 7 figure income, wears $3K business suits, drives around in very expensive cars - if he's so concerned over the poor, then WHY doesn't he himself help the poor with all the wealth he makes? The man's a HYPOCRITE(and a modern day Pharisee to boot - whom Jesus rebuked quite a bit).
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Old 04-23-2010, 09:44 PM   #15
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Default Re: Obama's faith advisor, Rev Jim Wallis, says the HC bill is "the heart of the gosp

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I gues he advises faith. For those that scream "separation of church and state," why is this guy so enamored with advising on politics? To mention, that evidently it is OKd by the big guy. He is one of his personal faith advisers. He is part of the big guy's faith based spirtual cabinet. Is he, they, getting paid by the govt? Even if not, is it ok for them to be part of advising on policy? just posing questions for discussion....
There's a big ecumenical movement going on now - there's the Emergent Church that's infiltrated and hijacked 100s of churches across the country(Rick Warren, Bill Hybels, Brian McLaren, Beth Moore, etc, and Billy Graham started doing it 50 years ago). Since the 1881 NIV, many different bible perversions have infiltrated their way into churches as well, one of them being the *New* King James Version, which has an occult symbol on its bible cover.

1st Tim 4:1-2 says in the latter days, many shall depart from the faith, heeding to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils, speaking LIES in HYPOCRICY, and having their consciences seered with a hot iron.

Ultimately, all of these so-called "evangelicals" that we see on the mainstream news(i.e. Warren, Joel Osteen, Graham and his son Franklin, Ted Haggard before he got into trouble, Paul Crouch, Rick Joyner, Todd Bentley before he got into trouble, John Hagee, Hal Lindsey, Tim LaHaye, Pat Robertson, the late Jerry Falwell, Joel Rosenberg, and now Jim Wallis, etc) are NOT REAL Christians. They're there for a purpose, and they're being paid, big time, to condition and deceive the masses to buy into this Dominionism Theology(which is really Communism in its true colors).
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Old 04-23-2010, 09:45 PM   #16
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Default Re: Obama's faith advisor, Rev Jim Wallis, says the HC bill is "the heart of the gosp

surprise, surprise
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Old 04-23-2010, 10:04 PM   #17
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Default Re: Obama's faith advisor, Rev Jim Wallis, says the HC bill is "the heart of the gosp

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Much of Christianity, if not all, is reciprocity. "Do unto others, to whom much is given, give and it shall be given, you shall reap what you sow, if you / I will, etc, etc, etc...".

Freedom itself is a reciprocal relationship. We are free to do as we ought to do. And included in what we ought to do is caring for those we are aware of in whatever measure we are able.

But these reciprocal relationships are of God, not gubmint. When gubmint seeks to redistribute wealth, it robs us not only of our wealth, but also our freedom to do as we ought, and that is the essence of who we are - our own free will.

Excellent post Newman!! Thank you.
Excellent indeed.

It surprises me when "Christians" act as though the government FORCING one group to give their belongings to another, while lining their own pockets in the process, is somehow the Christian way.....

An individual giving to others because THEY WANT to help others....makes more sense to me...
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Old 04-23-2010, 10:26 PM   #18
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Default Re: Obama's faith advisor, Rev Jim Wallis, says the HC bill is "the heart of the gosp

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Excellent indeed.

It surprises me when "Christians" act as though the government FORCING one group to give their belongings to another, while lining their own pockets in the process, is somehow the Christian way.....

An individual giving to others because THEY WANT to help others....makes more sense to me...
In 2nd Corinthians, Paul said that when we give, we have to be a CHEERFUL giver, one out of a GOOD heart.

This is also another big problem with today's church - pastors are hitting their congregations over the head with guilt to give 10% tithe of their income. For the record, tithing was an OLD TESTAMENT LEVITICAL LAW, and the old covenant/levitical law was DONE AWAY WITH with what Jesus Christ did at the cross(dying, shedding his blood, and resurrecting).

Anyhow - just wanted to throw that out, and further proves what Wallis is doing is WRONG.
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Old 04-23-2010, 10:44 PM   #19
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Default Re: Obama's faith advisor, Rev Jim Wallis, says the HC bill is "the heart of the gosp

ok...........we might want to box this thread up now, and send it on its way.
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Old 04-24-2010, 07:09 AM   #20
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Default Re: Obama's faith advisor, Rev Jim Wallis, says the HC bill is "the heart of the gosp

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In 2nd Corinthians, Paul said that when we give, we have to be a CHEERFUL giver, one out of a GOOD heart.

This is also another big problem with today's church - pastors are hitting their congregations over the head with guilt to give 10% tithe of their income.
I do understand your point T.

Fortunately, tithing, whether out of a GOOD heart, or feelings of obligation, to whatever degree, is still voluntary, right?
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