Why register with the Steelers Fever Forums?
 • Intelligent and friendly discussions.
 • It's free and it's quick. Always.
 • Enter events in the forums calendar.
 • Very user friendly software.
 • Exclusive contests and giveaways.

 Donate to Steelers Fever, Click here
 Our 2014 Goal: $450.00 - To Date: $450.00 (100.00%)
 Home | Forums | Editorials | Shop | Tickets | Downloads | Contact Pittsburgh Steelers Forum Feed Not Just Fans. Hardcore Fans.

Go Back   Steelers Fever Forums > Miscellaneous > Locker Room


Steelers Fever Fan Shop

Doc's Sports Get FREE NFL Picks and College Football picks as well as Football Lines like live NFL Lines and updated NFL Power Rankings all at Doc's Sports Service.

Steelers

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-24-2010, 09:22 AM   #1
Vincent
Team President
Supporter
 
Vincent's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: People's Republic of North Carolina
Posts: 2,485
Member Number: 10927
Thanks: 13
Thanked 11 Times in 9 Posts
Default "Yes, it is a lie but it is a good lie."

http://www.papillonsartpalace.com/alex.htm
The 'Roots' of huckster Haley's Great Fraud

Jan. 18, 2002 / 5 Shevat, 5762
Stanley Crouch
http://www.NewsAndOpinion.com --

IN the early 1980s, when Alex Haley, the author of "Roots," was speaking at Lincoln Center, investigative reporter Philip Nobile asked him a straightforward question. Since he had paid Harold Courlander $650,000 in a plagiarism suit, why shouldn't Haley be considered a criminal instead of a hero?

Haley had no answer. Well, what would you expect from someone who had pulled off one of the biggest con jobs in U.S. literary history?

Yet the "Roots" hoax has sustained itself. Every PBS station in America refused to show the 1997 BBC documentary inspired by Nobile's reporting on the book. And tonight NBC will air a retrospective on the 25th anniversary of the popular TV miniseries.

There are a number of reasons the truth about "Roots" is still ignored. One is that black Americans, primarily because of the influence of Malcolm X and the Nation of Islam, became obsessed with being a "lost" people in America, people who had "no knowledge of self." Younger black people were told they were not Americans, but victims of Americanism. Their true identity, Malcolm X said, was African and Islamic. The truth had been hidden from them by the white man, who was the Devil.

Another reason the hoax has held is that Haley, riding on the success of "The Autobiography of Malcolm X," for which he got "as told to" credit, knew how to hustle. He had already been accused of plagiarizing an interview with Miles Davis for Playboy.

So he traveled the country for years promoting a forthcoming book on the Haley family history, which he had miraculously traced back to Africa. Black college students, swept up in the black power movement and romantic ideas about "the motherland," were thrilled at the idea that Haley had proved it was possible to hold up a lantern in the historical darkness and find one's way home.

But the most important reason for the durability of the hoax is white folks. Those at Doubleday who published "Roots" had a best seller and were not interested in people knowing it was phony baloney. David Wolper Productions created the most successful miniseries of its time and was not interested. Federal Judge Robert Ward, who presided over the plagiarism case, protected Haley's reputation.

Ward urged Courlander - the man whose novel "The African" Haley pillaged - to be quiet about his huge settlement. Ward thought that Haley had become too important to black people to be torn down in public. As I said once before in this column a few years ago, that was paternalism at its very worst: Treat them like children; they can't handle the truth.

Haley called Nobile in February 1979 at New York magazine when he was reporting on the federal case. Haley said he shouldn't report on the case because the Ku Klux Klan could use the outcome against his people.

On another occasion, I heard Haley protest on the radio that "they" were trying "to say that black people have no history." At another point, according to Nobile, "He compared the truth about him to those people who attacked Anne Frank and said that there was no Holocaust. He would resort to anything."

Since "Roots" has brought millions of black tourist dollars to Gambia, one Gambian said to me, "Yes, it is a lie but it is a good lie."

The book remains an opportunistic insult to black people, and no amount of excuses will change that harsh fact.


Stanley Crouch, BTW, is black.
__________________

"We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress & the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution,
but overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution."

Abraham Lincoln
Vincent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2010, 11:15 AM   #2
revefsreleets
Living Legend
 
revefsreleets's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Akron, Ohio Home of LeBron James
Posts: 15,403
Gender: Male
Member Number: 5353
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: "Yes, it is a lie but it is a good lie."

This is actually germane as a lot of the current Mexican-American classes (publicly funded classes, mind you) are just thinly veiled guises barely hiding what they really are: Programmed victimology.
__________________
Official Steelersfever Arians Nuthugger
revefsreleets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2010, 11:33 AM   #3
Dino 6 Rings
Living Legend
 
Dino 6 Rings's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Arkansas (formerly New Jersey)
Posts: 8,272
Gender: Male
Member Number: 6891
Thanks: 25
Thanked 97 Times in 53 Posts
Default Re: "Yes, it is a lie but it is a good lie."

White Devils! How dare you mention this during these trying times of Immigration Reform!!!

que the Sarcasm Smiley
__________________
SuperBowl Wins - How many does YOUR team have?
Steelers 6, 49ers 5, Boys 5, Packers 4, Giants 4, Skins 3, Raiders 3, Pats 3, Broncos 2, Fins 2, Colts 2, Ravens 2 Bears 1,Jets 1, Bucs 1, Rams 1, Chiefs 1, Seahawks 1, Saints1
Dino 6 Rings is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2010, 02:26 PM   #4
SteelCityMom
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Member Number:
Default Re: "Yes, it is a lie but it is a good lie."

Wait...you really needed a written article to tell you that the Roots story is mostly fiction? I knew that when I was 8.

Of course the main characters are fictional. That doesn't in any way mean that some of the struggles of the characters are fictional though. Sure, one can find out their family history...but it'd be pretty odd is someone found out that kind of detailed history about their family (at least enough to put into a 8-10 hour miniseries).

So what if he embellished off of his family history and made money....isn't that the American dream? To make money?
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2010, 03:37 PM   #5
revefsreleets
Living Legend
 
revefsreleets's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Akron, Ohio Home of LeBron James
Posts: 15,403
Gender: Male
Member Number: 5353
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: "Yes, it is a lie but it is a good lie."

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelCityMom View Post
Wait...you really needed a written article to tell you that the Roots story is mostly fiction? I knew that when I was 8.

Of course the main characters are fictional. That doesn't in any way mean that some of the struggles of the characters are fictional though. Sure, one can find out their family history...but it'd be pretty odd is someone found out that kind of detailed history about their family (at least enough to put into a 8-10 hour miniseries).

So what if he embellished off of his family history and made money....isn't that the American dream? To make money?
Errrr....he didn't "make it up". That would be fine. The issue is that he stole significant portions of "Roots" from Harold Courlander's "The African".

That's plagiarism.
__________________
Official Steelersfever Arians Nuthugger
revefsreleets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2010, 03:49 PM   #6
Vincent
Team President
Supporter
 
Vincent's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: People's Republic of North Carolina
Posts: 2,485
Member Number: 10927
Thanks: 13
Thanked 11 Times in 9 Posts
Default Re: "Yes, it is a lie but it is a good lie."

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelCityMom View Post
Wait...you really needed a written article to tell you that the Roots story is mostly fiction? I knew that when I was 8.

Of course the main characters are fictional. That doesn't in any way mean that some of the struggles of the characters are fictional though. Sure, one can find out their family history...but it'd be pretty odd is someone found out that kind of detailed history about their family (at least enough to put into a 8-10 hour miniseries).

So what if he embellished off of his family history and made money....isn't that the American dream? To make money?
We swerved into this in another thread.

It was presented to us as non-fiction (truth) at the time. I remember it clearly as an adult as my Bride and I watched the whole series. Because it was presented as "the truth" it had a profound impact on a lot of folks and on the political landscape.

The author of the novel from which Haley plagiarized sued him. The sympathetic (to Haley) judge told Haley and his team to settle or he'd be forced to bring perjury charges. So they settled.
__________________

"We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress & the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution,
but overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution."

Abraham Lincoln
Vincent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2010, 04:25 PM   #7
SteelCityMom
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Member Number:
Default Re: "Yes, it is a lie but it is a good lie."

Quote:
Originally Posted by revefsreleets View Post
Errrr....he didn't "make it up". That would be fine. The issue is that he stole significant portions of "Roots" from Harold Courlander's "The African".

That's plagiarism.
Ok, that's fine....and apparently he paid a monetary sum for his plagiarism. Still, the article posted leans towards the notion that events that were described in the book are completely fictional. I don't buy that. Fictional, plagiarized, whatever...a good bit of what is described in the book took place in one respect or another.

Again (plagiarized or not), anyone who believes that one person in the 60's-70's managed to track their entire families slave history from Africa and recount it in extensive detail is kidding themselves.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2010, 04:28 PM   #8
SteelCityMom
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Member Number:
Default Re: "Yes, it is a lie but it is a good lie."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent View Post
We swerved into this in another thread.

It was presented to us as non-fiction (truth) at the time. I remember it clearly as an adult as my Bride and I watched the whole series. Because it was presented as "the truth" it had a profound impact on a lot of folks and on the political landscape.

The author of the novel from which Haley plagiarized sued him. The sympathetic (to Haley) judge told Haley and his team to settle or he'd be forced to bring perjury charges. So they settled.
I highly doubt the judge came up with the settlement idea. It's far more believable to think that Courlander's attorneys put the settlement offer on the table and the judge advised him to take it. Maybe I'm wrong, but as far as I know judges don't present settlement offers...lawyers do.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2010, 05:50 PM   #9
Vincent
Team President
Supporter
 
Vincent's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: People's Republic of North Carolina
Posts: 2,485
Member Number: 10927
Thanks: 13
Thanked 11 Times in 9 Posts
Default Re: "Yes, it is a lie but it is a good lie."

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelCityMom View Post
Again (plagiarized or not), anyone who believes that one person in the 60's-70's managed to track their entire families slave history from Africa and recount it in extensive detail is kidding themselves.
Or kidding us. At the time our society bought Haley's account lock stock and barrel. Haley was, apparently, quite a liar. The story goes that the detail came from griots.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelCityMom View Post
I highly doubt the judge came up with the settlement idea. It's far more believable to think that Courlander's attorneys put the settlement offer on the table and the judge advised him to take it. Maybe I'm wrong, but as far as I know judges don't present settlement offers...lawyers do.
The judge told the Haley team to settle or "he would have to contemplate a perjury charge". So they settled.

BTW, our Mother traced our family back to the battle of Hastings. But we weren't fortunate enough to have had the advantage of a griot.
__________________

"We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress & the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution,
but overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution."

Abraham Lincoln
Vincent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2010, 07:13 PM   #10
revefsreleets
Living Legend
 
revefsreleets's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Akron, Ohio Home of LeBron James
Posts: 15,403
Gender: Male
Member Number: 5353
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: "Yes, it is a lie but it is a good lie."

I don't even dispute that what was portrayed didn't happen...I'm sure it did, maybe even worse. That isn't the point.

The point is, this kind of regressive thinking fuels victimology. Not doing well right now? Well, for God's sake, don't blame yourself, look to the past! Blame rough treatment of your ancestors! Anything but working harder and smarter and moving on...can't do that (like every OTHER minority group in America past present and probably future).

There always seems to need to be a scapegoat...
__________________
Official Steelersfever Arians Nuthugger
revefsreleets is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:46 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Shoutbox provided by vBShout v6.2.1 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.0.8 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd. Runs best on HiVelocity Hosting.
Navbar with Avatar by Motorradforum
no new posts