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An important history lesson for you TRUE Steelers fans!

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Old 08-31-2010, 08:58 PM   #1
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Default Mr. President you ended the wrong war.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...-48-hours.html

Hopefully what's been won in Iraq wont be lost now that we've declared ourselves done there. We can argue all night about whether we went to war there under false premises or not, regardless the fact is that's a salvagable country. Given time they could prove to be a model for democracy throughout that region. Or at least something close to it. I'm not saying more lives wont be lost, or that it will be easy, but i don't think it will be at a cost of a great many more lives, and the end result could be benificial for the people of that country and the region for generations to come.

Now about that other war, while very few argue with the reasons for becoming involved there, it's time to cut and run imo. Afghanistan is ungovernable, your chasing rainbows thinking you can install an effecitve government there. If a totalitarian state such as the former Soviet Union couldn't manage the peace there, how the hell is a U.N. force bound by western rules of engagement going to manage?


All we're doing now is building up a body count, theirs and ours. Time to get out Mr. Presiden. As far as the future threat of the Taliban, predator drones and scecial forces deployments should do the trick. go in create mayhem, get the hell out.
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Old 08-31-2010, 09:13 PM   #2
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Default Re: Mr. President you ended the wrong war.

I understand his motives for wanting to better the place, and think a lot of citizens there really do want the US to be able to do some good...but I agree, it is somewhat hopeless.
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Old 08-31-2010, 09:50 PM   #3
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Default Re: Mr. President you ended the wrong war.

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I understand his motives for wanting to better the place, and think a lot of citizens there really do want the US to be able to do some good...but I agree, it is somewhat hopeless.
war is horrible, any war. that being said, once in a war, the position should be to win that war. people can debate what that definition of win means, but, to me it is pretty simple. decimate and destroy the designated enemy so that they cannot wage war, or terrorism, on anyone, again. we could have done that, in both Afghanistan, and Iraq, not to mention Vietnam, or going back a long way, Korea, if we, as a nation had put all our efforts into doing as much. we did not, and have not. without using the might of the country and populace as a whole, these wars should have never been fought. it does a disservice to those who fought and died, their families, and the people we are trying to "free," just to name a few. if this mindset does not change, then i want us out of Afghanistan also. i have more to say on this subject, but im just not in the mood.
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Old 08-31-2010, 10:12 PM   #4
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Default Re: Mr. President you ended the wrong war.

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war is horrible, any war. that being said, once in a war, the position should be to win that war. people can debate what that definition of win means, but, to me it is pretty simple. decimate and destroy the designated enemy so that they cannot wage war, or terrorism, on anyone, again. we could have done that, in both Afghanistan, and Iraq, not to mention Vietnam, or going back a long way, Korea, if we, as a nation had put all our efforts into doing as much. we did not, and have not. without using the might of the country and populace as a whole, these wars should have never been fought. it does a disservice to those who fought and died, their families, and the people we are trying to "free," just to name a few. if this mindset does not change, then i want us out of Afghanistan also. i have more to say on this subject, but im just not in the mood.
I agree with you, and I agree with some of the reasons for being there. No intentions of offending anyone at all. It's just such a hellhole right now, and the situation seems bleak.

I'm almost thinking that it would be best to get as many civilians as possible out right now and just drop a nuke on the place. I really never have thoughts like that often, but it's hard to see the road at the end of the tunnel over there ya know?
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Old 08-31-2010, 10:31 PM   #5
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Default Re: Mr. President you ended the wrong war.

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I agree with you, and I agree with some of the reasons for being there. No intentions of offending anyone at all. It's just such a hellhole right now, and the situation seems bleak.

I'm almost thinking that it would be best to get as many civilians as possible out right now and just drop a nuke on the place. I really never have thoughts like that often, but it's hard to see the road at the end of the tunnel over there ya know?
odd that you said that mom. i dated a girl in az for awhile. she grew up in Afghanistan, spoke farsi fluently(which was really hot). she grew up during the Russian occupation, until the Taliban took hold, and as the Russians fought the Taliban but eventually left. she lost a lost of family and friends to the fighting. although she didn't like nor agree with the Russian occupation, she said it was better than the Taliban, and what they were doing. in one of our many discussions about things like this, among many others concerning national security, she stated an interesting opinion. mind you, she would be considered very liberal, totally against the iraq war (again we used to talk about this all the time, knowing i was still in the Army, and differed in viewpoints), was bisexual, etc. very liberal. but her viewpoint about Afghanistan was that nothing can be done with it, it needs to be nuked, and start over. her words, not mine. that blew me away. no pun intended.
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Old 08-31-2010, 10:38 PM   #6
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Default Re: Mr. President you ended the wrong war.

i wish we woulda dropped bout 5-10 more daisy cutters or MOAB's on tora bora when we thought we had bin laden cornered.

i mean what were we worried about? turning a rocky mountain range into a mountain sized pile of rocky rubble?

oh well... i do like the idea of special ops and about 100 preadators and reapers with bunch of young air force gamer junkies practicing video warfare from california.
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Old 08-31-2010, 10:40 PM   #7
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Default Re: Mr. President you ended the wrong war.

Yeah, I'm usually not for those kinds of extreme measures...but it doesn't seem like there's much else that could have been done. (To me) It seems like they're playing whack-a-mole over there.

I have very, very conservative views on foreign policy and would prefer that the US not mingle in any nations affairs except for business purposes, but on the realistic side of it (since we can't go back in time and not be there), that just seems like the only way to get a good clear message across and end it all at once, with minimal civilian lives lost.
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Old 08-31-2010, 10:52 PM   #8
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Default Re: Mr. President you ended the wrong war.

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i wish we woulda dropped bout 5-10 more daisy cutters or MOAB's on tora bora when we thought we had bin laden cornered.

i mean what were we worried about? turning a rocky mountain range into a mountain sized pile of rocky rubble?

oh well... i do like the idea of special ops and about 100 preadators and reapers with bunch of young air force gamer junkies practicing video warfare from california.
politics, politics, and more politics. rumsfeld wanted to show the world we could go in with minimum troops, minimum force, and only use speed and SOF forces to get the job done. he got only part of it right. he had a personal issue with shinsecki, who said (along with Iraq), to secure the area we would need way more boots on the ground. on top of that, we wanted to play more political and nicey nice games, and use Afghani forces to get their "own", only to make a "statement." regardless of the consequences. idiocy. it was a i know better than you do, blah blah blah.
politics are useful and necessary, but only before, and after, the war/conflict are over. youd think we would have learned this lesson by now.
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Old 09-02-2010, 08:17 AM   #9
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Default Re: Mr. President you ended the wrong war.

I believe this was the war he had promised to end during the election... It's just to appease those who voted for him IMO...
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Old 09-03-2010, 12:27 AM   #10
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Default Re: Mr. President you ended the wrong war.

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I believe this was the war he had promised to end during the election... It's just to appease those who voted for him IMO...
Well I think his voter base is going to start get more and more antsy about Afghanistan as the body count continues to climb with no measurable progress being realized. I
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