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Old 09-09-2010, 04:15 AM   #21
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Default Re: 2009 offense vs defense

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Originally Posted by tony hipchest View Post

i agree that pourous games were equally attributed to the offensive and special teams shortcomings, along with the defense missing 2 of its crucial components.

does anyone ever wonder why offensive and ST coaching staff was fired, but the defensive staff left intact?

the proof is in the pudding.
I think we are in close agreement. I just feel that ignoring whatever else was done in the game and just focusing on stopping critical drives, there were times in the 4th quarter where the defense choked. By that I mean if they played well and got the stop, we win the game. If you don't see it that way there we'll be no convincing you. Everyone dreams for the big moment...it's what you do in that moment that defines choking.

I have a feeling you even see what I mean but are being ultra sensitive to the defensive players' feelings.

For the Raiders, I'm referring to all 21 points. If I would normally expect the person to make the play or the person is highly capable of making the play, I would call it choking. If not, then probably not.

Of course they are not going to fire Lebeau. Everyone knows it was because Troy was gone. Even so, lebeau as too much stature to be fired and the assistants like Butler are all doing a fine job. I know the ST and O-line had problems. The only place we disagree is I say the Troy-less D also had problems and didn't come through on several occasions.
Anyway, let's find a way to wrap this up. The new season is starting.
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Old 09-09-2010, 05:37 AM   #22
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Default Re: 2009 offense vs defense

Not sure if this is an appropriate comment to make here, but I found it very odd that the people who rushed to the defense of Arians (always making sure to lump him in with the "Front Office" as a whole) were quick to bag on LeBeau and his unit. Never made sense to me. LeBeau's name and historic consistency should carry enough cred to weather a bad year, IMHO.

That said, Steeler D lost some push up front (Smith) and it's Numero Uno on the back end (Troy)... and it showed. We were slower to get to the QB, especially on 3rd downs, and we gave up some painfully long plays at painfully bad moments late in games. Not good times, although given the importance of those two players, it's astounding we didn't do worse.

I think Ziggy will give us some insurance should Smith or Keisel go down, so we're OK there. However, we still have squat if Troy goes down again, which is a problem. Given the team's resignation on Urbik and the near-miss that is Tony Hills, I'm curious to see how the selection of a possibly redundant linebacker in this year's 2nd round is going to square with the obvious lack of quality starters and depth in the secondary. Know what I mean?
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Old 09-09-2010, 07:22 AM   #23
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Default Re: 2009 offense vs defense

I have maintained since last year that despite the injuries the defense held their own. Our offense is SOOOOOO frickin frustrating and inconsistent it makes me want to scream. There is NO WAY, we should have close games with our D. No way.
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Old 09-09-2010, 01:01 PM   #24
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Default Re: 2009 offense vs defense

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That said, Steeler D lost some push up front (Smith) and it's Numero Uno on the back end (Troy)... and it showed. We were slower to get to the QB, especially on 3rd downs, and we gave up some painfully long plays at painfully bad moments late in games. Not good times, although given the importance of those two players, it's astounding we didn't do worse.
Thanks for actually seeing that the defense did make some painful mistakes late. I don't know how one can argue against this. You watch, think if they can stop ere we win, they don't, pain...lol

Gay way bad all season and many have said it was because Troy was gone because he looked good the year before. I don't care. Troy is back and he is no longer starting. Problem solved.

With a tighter secondary, Harrison can be magical again.

It was one of those seasons with many blown leads. It's not always like that. Sometimes when you play games, the opponent cleans your clock from the beginning and that's that. When leads are blown in the 4th quarter, you can't help but to notice the defense.
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Old 09-09-2010, 01:09 PM   #25
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Default Re: 2009 offense vs defense

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I have maintained since last year that despite the injuries the defense held their own. Our offense is SOOOOOO frickin frustrating and inconsistent it makes me want to scream. There is NO WAY, we should have close games with our D. No way.
Sure...it was a 5th place D who was average (16th) at pass D but great at stopping points. Bend but don't break.

When they get great as pass D again, we will win the battle of field position and the offense will have shorter drives to deal with. It is easier if you give your offense some short fields. Some INTs would help. Drives always derail. The goal is to score before the momentum is broken and the drive derails. You would notice if they had to go 200 yards, some of these 80 yard drives (long drives) would even derail. Maybe they would go 143 and then some penalty or they just get stopped. Tighter defense helps field position.
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Old 09-09-2010, 02:46 PM   #26
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Default Re: 2009 offense vs defense

The other thing is the defense never felt like a top 5 defense without Troy. The statistics are skewed. I'm sure if you take out the games where Troy played and the two Cleveland games, you'll get entirely different averages etc. Excellent play in certain games made the overall season look good for them but ...nah...

If I have some time later I might tackle it.
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Old 09-09-2010, 03:53 PM   #27
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Default Re: 2009 offense vs defense

Defense looked solid to me in most games until the 4th. Take the Vikings game, the offense couldnt do crap, so the defense took it upon themselves to get two tds and win the game.
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Old 09-09-2010, 04:04 PM   #28
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Default Re: 2009 offense vs defense

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Defense looked solid to me in most games until the 4th. Take the Vikings game, the offense couldnt do crap, so the defense took it upon themselves to get two tds and win the game.
Yeah..."until the 4th" is the key thing. Like I said, the raven defense spent more time on the field and never complained. We spent more time on the field in '08 (and some other seasons) and never complained of being tired. If it is shown that more time was spent in 4th Q, that doesn't prove anything. If that's when they start sucking and can't get the other team off the field, of course more time will be spent there. Any time a D is playing badly and the other team's offense isn't an excellent passing offense TOP for that team will go up.
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Old 09-09-2010, 04:06 PM   #29
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Default Re: 2009 offense vs defense

I'd be willing to do the stats if you and tony have a real interest in it but if you are just going to find a way to ignore them, why should I bother? I'm debating. It sounds like you guys are set that the defense was awesome.
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Old 09-09-2010, 04:09 PM   #30
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