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Old 10-16-2010, 02:37 PM   #111
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Default Re: Americans' suspicions frustrate U.S. Muslims

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukp...21287147189A00

This is almost laugh out loud funny. If he gets the death penalty I don't have a great deal of sympathy for him, after all it appears that he brutally murdered his manservant /lover. But the irony of course that the bass ackward form of sharia law the Saudi's practice would have him put to death for the act of being gay.

Oh brother, right verdict, wrong crime.

Sorry SCM and ric, but I'm fascinated with the archaic instution of Sharia law.
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Old 10-16-2010, 03:08 PM   #112
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Default Re: Americans' suspicions frustrate U.S. Muslims

Quote:
Originally Posted by zulater View Post
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukp...21287147189A00

This is almost laugh out loud funny. If he gets the death penalty I don't have a great deal of sympathy for him, after all it appears that he brutally murdered his manservant /lover. But the irony of course that the bass ackward form of sharia law the Saudi's practice would have him put to death for the act of being gay.

Oh brother, right verdict, wrong crime.

Sorry SCM and ric, but I'm fascinated with the archaic instution of Sharia law.

Of course it's archaic and wrong, but your obsession is only serving to blind you from what's going on in the rest of the world as well. You treat this like radical Muslims are the only ones doing this. They aren't. I don't know if you don't believe what I've been posting, or if you're just ignoring it and moving on, but the problem of violence against gays and women (at a government and societal level) is much bigger than Islam.

I get your hatred for Sharia and radical Islamists, but your views (IMO) are absurdly biased and one-sided....to the point of becoming dangerously delusional.

Christian, multi-religious and secular nations across the world are filthy with racial, sexist and anti-homosexual violence. Again, I think it's dangerous to focus on one religion and one society and say they are the main problem.

And this may sound ignorant, but it's probably a little bit true too...but I have a sneaking suspicion that some uber Christians in this country (and in other "westernized" countries) only have a problem with some aspects or Sharia law because it comes from brown people. I distrust these types more than I distrust some radical Muslims in a fundamental Islamic state in the Middle East because these people are already here and doing what they can to push these kinds of laws on Americans under the guise of "Biblical Laws". Religious nuts are dangerous people, no matter what book they read. I have to say I'm more concerned about the ones who are already here and running for office than I am about the ones over there.
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Old 10-16-2010, 03:32 PM   #113
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Default Re: Americans' suspicions frustrate U.S. Muslims

Yay to this guy, (R) Carl Paladino, for bringing in the anti-gay speech into his platform! This guy's running for Governor too. Wonderful.

[youtube]17ERPr5W13s[/youtube]
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Old 10-16-2010, 08:28 PM   #114
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Default Re: Americans' suspicions frustrate U.S. Muslims

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCMom View Post
Of course it's archaic and wrong, but your obsession is only serving to blind you from what's going on in the rest of the world as well. You treat this like radical Muslims are the only ones doing this. .
when hindu's attack ...

[YOUTUBE]y0FLW_OSKdA [/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]ehzOnu85k10 [/YOUTUBE]
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Old 10-16-2010, 08:36 PM   #115
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Default Re: Americans' suspicions frustrate U.S. Muslims

I also feel like I'm having to repeat another point over and over again: our responsibility is to look critically at ourselves. Patting ourselves undeservedly on the back while judging others in whose shoes we haven't walked even two seconds serves no purpose. It's quite dangerous, actually.
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Old 10-16-2010, 09:00 PM   #116
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Default Re: Americans' suspicions frustrate U.S. Muslims

Why do Christians not obey the Old Testaments commands to kill homosexuals and disobedient children?


by Matt Slick
Critics of the Bible often cite Old Testament instances of slavery, violence against homosexuals, wiping out nations, etc., as evidence of a morally inadequate set of rules. They will also often ask why present-day Christians don't follow these "barbaric" teachings today. They complain that Christians are inconsistent, and say that if we really follow the Bible then why don't we advocate such things as killing both homosexuals (Lev. 20:13) and disobedient children (Deut. 21:18-21).
The reason we don't is because the Old Covenantal system, that involved such harsh punishments, has been done away with. We are under a new covenant. Jesus said in Luke 22:20, "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood."
This new covenant was prophecied in the Old Testament in Jer. 31:31, “Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah." It is referenced in 1 Cor. 11:25, 2 Cor. 3:6, Heb. 8:8, 9:15; and 12:24.
Of particular importance to our topic is Heb. 8:13 which says, "When He said, 'A new covenant,' He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear." The Old Covenant with its harsh judicial judgments is no longer in effect because we are under a New Covenant.
Part of the reason the Old Testament covenantal system was so harsh is because first, the Old Testament law demonstrates the severity of righteousness and the requirement of perfection before a holy God. Galatians 3:24 says that the law is what points us to Christ. It does this by showing us that we are not able to keep the law and that the only way of obtaining righteousness before God is through the sacrifice of Jesus, who was God in flesh (John 1:1,14; Col. 2:9).
Second, the Old Testament times were very difficult and there were many nations that warred against Israel. Also, the devil and his demonic horde was constantly working to destroy Israel in order to invalidate the prophecies of the coming Messiah, to therefore prevent the Messiah from being born and delivering his people. Therefore, God instituted laws, as difficult as they were, that were consistent with the culture of the times, that ensured the survival of the Jewish nation, that helped to maintain social structure, and also reflected the harshness of the law.
The New Testament covenantal system says that we are to "be at peace with one another," (Mark 9:50) and "with all men," (Rom. 12:18). Rom. 14:18 says, "pursue the things which make for peace and the building up of one another." After all, "God has called us to peace," (1 Cor. 7:15).
However, this does not mean that we are to approve of such sins as homosexuality, adultery, lying, and stealing. We are to not participate in the sins of the world. Instead, we are to avoid them. We are not to be violent to anyone since the old theonomic, covenantal system has been done away with (Heb. 8:13). Instead, we are to be kind to them (2 Tim. 2:24-25) and show them love (1 Cor. 16:14; 2 Cor. 5:14). But the moral condemnation of immorality still stands -- as is clearly taught in 1 Cor. 6:9-10 and Rom. 1:26-28.
So, the reason Christians are not obligated to stone homosexuals, disobedient children, and adulterers, is because we're no longer underneath the Old Testament covenantal system. It has been fulfilled and done away with (Heb. 8:13).
What right do you have to judge?

In order for someone to raise a valid objection against the moral statutes of the Old Testament, he or she must provide a standard by which such judgments can be made. While people may not agree with the moral judgments of the Old Testament, not agreeing does not invalidate them or mean they are wrong; nor does simply saying "they were obviously barbaric rules" mean that they were. Likewise, saying that "society has evolved" is a meaningless statement. By what standard does the critic offer morally objective criteria by which he or she can judge another culture's morals?
We have to ask what right does a person in a present-day culture have to judge any ancient culture which existed in a completely different economic, militaristic, judicial, and geographical configuration? Of course, people are entitled to their opinions and they don't have to like what the Bible teaches, but not liking it has no bearing on whether or not it is good. So, those critics who insist that the Old Testament laws were wrong need to provide an objective standard (not their own opinions) by which they can make moral judgments.


http://carm.org/why-do-christians-no...ll-homosexuals
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Old 10-16-2010, 09:36 PM   #117
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Default Re: Americans' suspicions frustrate U.S. Muslims

I read some of that site MOP....I've been really bad I think.
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Old 10-16-2010, 09:37 PM   #118
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Default Re: Americans' suspicions frustrate U.S. Muslims

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCMom View Post
I get your hatred for Sharia and radical Islamists, but your views (IMO) are absurdly biased and one-sided....to the point of becoming dangerously delusional.

.
This is what i see, I see South Park lampoon every major religion, and even some not so major. And of course they've drawn more than a little negative reaction. Some boycotts have been called for, but not followed through on, of course Chef ( Isaac Hayes) unfortunately quit after they took on the Scienetologists, and obviously they've got more than a little hate male. But only once have they had the plug pulled on them, guess what religion that was in reference to? Who scared Comedy central to the point of censorship?


They murder or threaten to kill cartoonists, authors ( Rushdie) or anyone else who dares to call their religion into question. Sorry but I'm not seeing this out of the rest of the world's religions. "Respect me or else!"

Call me when the Pope or BillyGraham issue a fatwa demanding the death of Trey Parker and Matt Stone.
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Old 10-16-2010, 09:45 PM   #119
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Default Re: Americans' suspicions frustrate U.S. Muslims

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This is what i see, I see South Park lampoon every major religion, and even some not so major. And of course they've drawn more than a little negative reaction. Some boycotts have been called for, but not followed through on, of course Chef ( Isaac Hayes) unfortunately quit after they took on the Scienetologists. But only once have they had the plug pulled on them, guess what religion that was in reference to?


They murder or threaten to kill cartoonists, authors ( Rushdie) or anyone else who dares to call their religion into question. Sorry not seeing this out of the rest of the worlds religions.

Call me when the Pope or BillyGraham issue a fatwa demanding the death of Trey Parker and Matt Stone.
Again...I'm not saying I agree with any of that, but really, are you just going to deny all the violence in the world that has nothing to do with Islam? I just can't do that. Again, I'm more concerned about what goes on within our own borders than with what goes on in the Middle East. It's a big distraction on keeping our freedoms strong and keeping the RIGHT people in office. Europe got too comfortable with their freedoms and now they are paying the price I guess. That's the best lesson I can take away from the Islamic violence there. What I suppose I mean is this...take care of your own house (country) and you don't have to worry about others (invaders) taking it away from you.

More to the point of your post though, religious nuts (from here and other countries) don't bother going after petty cartoonists. They go for the higher ups. I'm vigilant of them all, but try to keep a better eye on the religious nuts already in the country, the ones that will actually do something given the chance.

A bit off topic...but found this article interesting. Enjoy.

Quote:
The Most Homophobic Place on Earth?
By TIM PADGETT/KINGSTON Wednesday, Apr. 12, 2006

Brian wears sunglasses to hide his gray and lifeless left eye—damaged, he says, by kicks and blows with a board from Jamaican reggae star Buju Banton. Brian, 44, is gay, and Banton, 32, is an avowed homophobe whose song Boom Bye-Bye decrees that gays "haffi dead" ("have to die"). In June 2004, Brian claims, Banton and some toughs burst into his house near Banton's Kingston recording studio and viciously beat him and five other men. After complaints from international human-rights groups, Banton was finally charged last fall, but in January a judge dismissed the case for lack of evidence. It was a bitter decision for Brian, who lost his landscaping business after the attack and is fearful of giving his last name. "I still go to church," he says as he sips a Red Stripe beer. "Every Sunday I ask why this happened to me."
Though familiar to Americans primarily as a laid-back beach destination, Jamaica is hardly idyllic. The country has the world's highest murder rate. And its rampant violence against gays and lesbians has prompted human-rights groups to confer another ugly distinction: the most homophobic place on earth.
In the past two years, two of the island's most prominent gay activists, Brian Williamson and Steve Harvey, have been murdered — and a crowd even celebrated over Williamson's mutilated body. Perhaps most disturbing, many anti-gay assaults have been acts of mob violence. In 2004, a teen was almost killed when his father learned his son was gay and invited a group to lynch the boy at his school. Months later, witnesses say, police egged on another mob that stabbed and stoned a gay man to death in Montego Bay. And this year a Kingston man, Nokia Cowan, drowned after a crowd shouting "batty boy" (a Jamaican epithet for homosexual) chased him off a pier. "Jamaica is the worst any of us has ever seen," says Rebecca Schleifer of the U.S.-based Human Rights Watch and author of a scathing report on the island's anti-gay hostility.
Jamaica may be the worst offender, but much of the rest of the Caribbean also has a long history of intense homophobia. Islands like Barbados still criminalize homosexuality, and some seem to be following Jamaica's more violent example. Last week two CBS News producers, both Americans, were beaten with tire irons by a gay-bashing mob while vacationing on St. Martin. One of the victims, Ryan Smith, was airbused to a Miami hospital, where he remains in intensive care with a fractured skull.
Gay-rights activists attribute the scourge of homophobia in Jamaica largely to the country's increasingly thuggish reggae music scene. Few epitomize the melding of reggae and gangsta cultures more than Banton, who is one of the nation's most popular dance-hall singers. Born Mark Myrie, he grew up the youngest of 15 children in Kingston's Salt Lane — the sort of slum dominated by ultraconservative Christian churches and intensely anti-gay Rastafarians. Banton parlayed homophobia into a ticket out of Salt Lane. One of his first hits, 1992's Boom Bye-Bye, boasts of shooting gays with Uzis and burning their skin with acid "like an old tire wheel."
Banton's lyrics are hardly unique among reggae artists today. Another popular artist, Elephant Man (O'Neil Bryant, 29) declares in one song, "When you hear a lesbian getting raped/ It's not our fault ... Two women in bed/ That's two Sodomites who should be dead." Another, Bounty Killer (Rodney Price, 33), urges listeners to burn "Mister Fagoty" and make him "wince in agony."
Reggae's anti-gay rhetoric has seeped into the country's politics. Jamaica's major political parties have passed some of the world's toughest antisodomy laws and regularly incorporate homophobic music in their campaigns. "The view that results," says Jamaican human-rights lawyer Philip Dayle, "is that a homosexual isn't just an undesirable but an unapprehended criminal."
Meanwhile, gay-rights activists say Jamaican police often overlook evidence in anti-gay hate crimes, such as the alleged assault by Banton in 2004. His accuser, Brian, says cops excised Banton's role from their reports of the 2004 beating. A police spokesman denies that. But in dismissing the case earlier this year, the judge in the trial warned Banton to avoid violence and "seek legal recourses" when he has complaints against gays in the future. Banton refused TIME's request for an interview. His manager, Donovan Germain, insists that the singer is innocent and that "Buju's lyrics are part of a metaphorical tradition. They're not a literal call to kill gay men."
There are some signs that Jamaica may soften its approach. Jamaica's ruling party last month elected the nation's first female Prime Minister, Portia Simpson Miller, a progressive who gay-rights supporters hope will eventually move to decriminalize homosexuality. She hasn't yet said that, but Jamaica's beleaguered gays say they at least have reason now to hope their government will change its tune before their reggae stars ever do.


Read more: http://www.time.com/time/world/artic...#ixzz12a2gKubM
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Old 10-16-2010, 10:17 PM   #120
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Default Re: Americans' suspicions frustrate U.S. Muslims

P.S. I still you Zu. Don't want you to think I don't value your opinion on the matter, I really do...I just look at it differently. I actually tend to agree with you a bit on the matter as a whole, I just don't see it as the thing Americans should be focusing on most. I really believe that we need to take care of our government first and protect our freedoms from the politicians already in office (or running for office) before we worry about outside forces taking them over. Strengthen our freedoms now, and we won't need to worry about them. That's my philosophy.
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