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Old 03-08-2006, 07:54 AM   #31
Suitanim
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Default Re: I find it hard not to sing this toe tappin' song

My problem is that the very clear and concise poetry-like lyrics of Neal Peart are being compared on an equal footing to some vernacular about being a thug that a dude basically talks about over some synthesized drum tracks.
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Old 03-08-2006, 09:10 AM   #32
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Default Re: I find it hard not to sing this toe tappin' song

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suitanim
My problem is that the very clear and concise poetry-like lyrics of Neal Peart are being compared on an equal footing to some vernacular about being a thug that a dude basically talks about over some synthesized drum tracks.
"When I wanted to rebel, I listened to punk and hardcore music, but at least the guys played instruments, wrote songs and sang. I've also been in a few bands, and played the drums and sang, which were the two easiest of the jobs in the band, but still takes more talent than most rappers have."

the talent of neal pearte isnt in question. the convo went from punk and hardcore to rush. the statement in bold is what was really being discussed by me. taking a look at these gems by the ramones (who happen to be one of my all time favorites and definitely groundbreaking and influential artists) theres really no comparisson tho the complexity of some rap lyrics. some of the synthesized music these lyrics are put to take many more hours of thought and work than pounding on drums, a bass, and a guitar.


Blitzkrieg Bop


Hey ho, let's go
Hey ho, let's go
Hey ho, let's go
Hey ho, let's go

They're forming in a straight line
They're going through a tight wind
The kids are losing their minds
The Blitzkrieg Bop

They're piling in the back seat
They're generating steam heat
Pulsating to the back beat
The Blitzkrieg Bop.

Hey ho, let's go
Shoot'em in the back now
What they want, I don't know
They're all reved up and ready to go



They're forming in a straight line
They're going through a tight wind
The kids are losing their minds
The Blitzkrieg Bop

They're piling in the back seat
They're generating steam heat
Pulsating to the back beat
The Blitzkrieg Bop.

Hey ho, let's go
Shoot'em in the back now
What they want, I don't know
They're all reved up and ready to go


They're forming in a straight line
They're going through a tight wind
The kids are losing their minds
The Blitzkrieg Bop

They're piling in the back seat
They're generating steam heat
Pulsating to the back beat
The Blitzkrieg Bop.

Hey ho, let's go
Hey ho, let's go
Hey ho, let's go
Hey ho, let's go




Beat on the Brat

Beat on the brat
Beat on the brat
Beat on the brat with a baseball bat
Oh yeah, oh yeah, uh- oh
What can you do?
What can you do?
With a brat like this always on your back
What can you do? (lose? )



Judy Is a Punk

Jackie is a punk
Judy is a runt
They both went down to Berlin,Joined
The ice capades
And oh,I don't know why
Oh,I don't know why
Perhaps they'll die.

Second verse same as the first
(repeat first verse)

Third verse different from the first

Jackie is a punk
Judy is a runt
They both went down to Frisco,joined the SLA
And oh,I don't know why
Oh,I don't know why
Perhaps they'll die.
I Wanna Be Your Boyfriend

Hey,little girl
I wanna be your boyfriend
Sweet little girl
I wanna be your boyfriend.
Do you love me babe?
What do you say?
Do you love me babe?
What can I say?
Because i wanna be your boyfriend.



Chainsaw

Oh, oh, oh
Sitting here with nothin' to do
Sitting here thinkin' only of you
But you'll never get out of there
She'll never get out of there.
Texas chain saw massacre
They took my baby away from me
But she'll never get out of there
She'll never get out of there
I don't care, wohoho

When I saw her on the corner
She told me told me told me told me
She wouldn't go far
Ooh, now I know I'm so much in love
'Cause she's the only girl that I'm ever thinking of



Now I Wanna Sniff Some Glue

Now I wanna sniff some glue
Now I wanna have somethin' to do
All the kids wanna sniff some glue
All the kids want somethin' to do
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Old 03-08-2006, 09:16 AM   #33
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Default Re: I find it hard not to sing this toe tappin' song

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3 to be 4

I DONT &*^$%*(%$ GET IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHAT THE $^**(^$R IS EVERYBODY SAYING!!!!!!
WHY CANT THEY SPEAK ENGLISH FOR &**%% SAKES??????????? IT SOUNDS LIKE GIBBERISH TO ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I DONT UNDERSTAND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

3 2b 4 - since we are both big beattles fans i will say that the exact same thing was said about such classics as the white album, magical mystery tour etc. revolution #9, lucy in the sky, helter skelter, i am the walrus, penny lane, yellow submarine? all great songs.

not everyone understood them

dont think i am calling nas an equivilant of the beattles. just comparing the fact their work wasnt understood by everybody.
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Old 03-08-2006, 09:55 AM   #34
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Default Re: I find it hard not to sing this toe tappin' song

Actually, I'd say comparing the Ramones to rap is pretty much spot on...
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Old 03-08-2006, 10:05 AM   #35
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Default Re: I find it hard not to sing this toe tappin' song

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3 to be 4
ok, thanks. Very impressive. Its obviously all right there.

for me, it comes down to one thing and its just my personal understanding and preference and frame of reference of sensibility and all that:

I DONT &*^$%*(%$ GET IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHAT THE $^**(^$R IS EVERYBODY SAYING!!!!!!
WHY CANT THEY SPEAK ENGLISH FOR &**%% SAKES??????????? IT SOUNDS LIKE GIBBERISH TO ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I DONT UNDERSTAND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


there. but its ok if everybody else likes. except for the cop killing, and girls as Ho's and bitches, the the swearing, and the violence and intmidation and stuff. Buts its ok if everybody else likes it. I like Switchfoot or Casting Crowns myself, but...........
Damn I'm having to do a shitload of explaining. I must be the only person here that likes rap music.....shit. Ok, you complain that they don't speak english and it is hard to understand what they are saying. Would you listen to a man who just said something outright and plain or buy his record? No, I wouldn't either. It is poetry and it is poetic language that is used to describe what they talk about in the song and yes there is a lot of street slang in the song but that is normal. We all talk differently and it is how they grew up talking. You could argue that why aren't they educated to talk "good" and right there would be the problem: a lot of them weren't. That is partly what makes the GOOD rappers amazing. They had no chance in school and no opportunity to go anywhere but they mastered the art of poetry in rap and how to freestyle (rapping making it up as you go) which is very difficult to do (I do it and it can be hard to not repeat yourself, stick with the beat and keep going, etc.

As you again complain about the same issues with girls being hoes and shit I'll go one by one again. Cop killing: poetic reaction to how many artists felt about cops because of the corruption in many police departments and especially in the big cities. The complaint is that the cops never protect them when it is needed in the ghetto yet whenever there is a person to arrest the black man is the first one to go down. This is partially true and I will admit there is some bias. The police don't ALWAYS look for the black man first but I have seen it and experienced it with my friends personally that cops do seem automatically suspicious of a black person over a white person. Cops also don't enforce the law very well in some parts of big cities which are often the ghetto neighborhoods. That is partially due because they are scared of the area because of so many people not liking the police and because it is a really bad area. North Philly is an example, been there, not a nice place, and no cops in the area anywhere.

Some rappers do often refer to women as bitches and hoes and I do not like that either. I am the first to be respectful to a woman and would never hurt one. Again you have to separate the good rappers from the bad ones. I'm sure you know of some band that you think is awful for the genre of rock but is in the mainstream so everyone is gonna hear it anyway...same here. Many of the rappers that do nothing but say "bitch" this and "hoe" that are not really good rappers at all and I personally do not appreciate their music. Those rappers who do are more riding the wave of popularity of rap and just saying what people want to hear in order to make money. Many of the good rappers will rarely refer to a women as such but I will tell you that in some areas it is practice to refer to women in general as "bitches" and "hoes." I am not arguing that that is a good thing but I even know white kids that will ask "where the bitches at?" I don't condone those actions and do think many just say it to seem cool.

The violence that is often disliked in hip-hop is often the over publicized extenuation of hood wars from back before the rappers became famous. This type of this happens every day where they are from but it is not until they are on MTV that the media pays attention and suddenly it is national news. There are fights between rappers and that does happen because you can never please everyone. When a rapper sees something he don't like in another or he thinks the other rapper isn't good he will put it out there and let the world know. Now as you know there are different types of good and bad arguments. A person that would give you stats in football is gonna be taken easier than a person that just says "you're a jerk." When the former happens the other rapper comes back at the other with their own argument of why they deserve credibility and even why the other rapper is dumb for saying that against them. When the case of "you're a jerk" happens then it becomes more heated. It is taken personally and considered disrespectful and most often will be retaliated lyrically by the other artist. It is only in extreme circumstances that they two people will end up in a physical fight. Rapping is often used INSTEAD of violence to hurt another rapper. Everyone knows that if someone says something dumb about you in everyday life you can defame them and come out better if you argue back at them instead of sucker punching them. When violence does break out it is just what these people have grown up learning how to react when the shit gets too out of control. It may seem sad but it is true and happens a lot around the country. Instead of being appalled at the rap community people who don't like it should go to where the artists came from to try to make it better growing up there instead of just campaigning agaisnt what the rappers say.

With the drugs, womanizing, and other problems in rap I argue that it is because of today's media that we are told every little bit of a person's life so much that we are over exposed to it and act like it has never happened before. You can't argue that the classic rock groups that I'm sure you love did many drugs and womanized quite a bit. But they are considered SO great. Going back further into classical music composers throughout the ages have always had problems with drugs and women. Name me a classical (not just the classical period I mean all musical composers pre 1900) that did not die of a STD and I'll credit you for finding him or her but also ask if it was hard for you to find. Drugs were also used by many classical composers and they were often addicts to the substances. These things were never really brought to light though because there was no big media to follow people around constantly. Rappers become targets for the media because of their rough appearance and exterior and for where they come from there are automatically considered "unthinking thugs." Only today does this happen that people are labeled in such a way before they are even allowed to speak. In my mind you can not find people that are more reflective and troubled by the problems of where they came from than good rappers. This shit has always gone on but it has not been until this era of time that everyone gets to learn and know about everything thing their favorite musical artist does in their free time.

BuFu
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Old 03-08-2006, 10:06 AM   #36
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Default Re: I find it hard not to sing this toe tappin' song

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suitanim
My problem is that the very clear and concise poetry-like lyrics of Neal Peart are being compared on an equal footing to some vernacular about being a thug that a dude basically talks about over some synthesized drum tracks.
Suit, before I say anything I'ma tell you I got respect for you and I am not trying to instigate anything but I do think you've written off rap as a genre before you have ever really listened to a good rapper. Neal Pearl might appear clear and concise to you but I'm sure I could find someone who doesn't understand him. His lyrics are well thought out and put together well I'm sure but so are the lyrics of many famous rap songs. You say that rappers just use the vernacular in there songs and that is somehow a bad thing. But what is the easiest way to be heard and understood by people? To use the vernacular. They did it in Europe after the protestant revolution to convert more people to Christianity by printing the Bible in the vernacular so the application is extended to today with many of good rappers. You can argue that how are they using the vernacular if you or someone else can't understand them. To that I say that rap as a genre grew up in the streets as a genre of music for the streets meaning that they used the way of speaking that they knew and everyone else knew. I know to today that has been stretched and extended a good ways but I am trying to give you the basis of where this all came from. Originally rap was just synthesized drum beats that DJs would use that were automatic settings on a mixer. They built off those beats with the practice of "scratching" records and it has evolved from there. Today it is no longer just a synthesized drumbeat but instead is a combination of many instruments and recordings that are mixed together to form a beat. It my be synthesized to an extent but it no longer sounds like it came off a pong game. Many good artists and producers mix together more classical and jazzy music into their beats to give different flavor to a song. Kanye West is very good at this. Rappers have also teamed up with singers and rock groups to blend genres. Adam Levine from Maroon 5 was in a Kanye West song and Jay-Z got together with Linkin Park. Whether or not you like any of the said bands is irrelevant. The point I'm trying to make is that rap is not just a genre to talk about being a thug and doing bad things. It is yet another creative outlet for people to express themselves and try to change the world and has come a long way in the time it has been around (70s).


You all argue against rap using the stereotypical arguments that have been heard time and time again. If I were to come back at this on your favorite genre of rock I could make countless arguments for why rock is not a good genre (If you remember 50 years back there were many arguments on how rock wasn't real music as well.). I could talk about rock as being a depressing and suicidal music since so many rock artists sing about what is bad in their life and what they have lost and what makes them unhappy. I could say that many of the lyrics in rock are satanically linked. I could say that rock is nothing but loud guitars and screaming into the mic. I could say rock is nothing more than singing about "her" or "you" and is just a bunch of psuedo-love song shit at its base. I do not though because of the fact that I can discern what may be good rock or bad rock. My roommate listens to nothing else that the rock type of genre but at the same time we are both skilled musically and I have gotten many lessons in good and bad rock. I know there is good and bad in all genres of music and am not going to try to personally attack anyone's affinity for a particular genre, I just am trying to defend my own. Hope some of this helped and let me know if I didn't say anything clear enough. Peace.

BuFu

Added after reading tony's post: DJ Danger Mouse took the Beatles: The White Albun and mixed it with Jay-Z: The Black Album and got "The Grey Album." Listen to it and it is actually really good.

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Old 03-08-2006, 10:15 AM   #37
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Default Re: I find it hard not to sing this toe tappin' song

punk/ hardcore evolved as the antithesis to bands like rush and songs like "dreamweaver". the highly technical aspect of what rock and roll had become jumped the shark so to speak. the same thing can be seen in the art world when the classical period was practically abandonned and simpler forms were adopted. less became more.
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Old 03-08-2006, 11:11 AM   #38
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Default Re: I find it hard not to sing this toe tappin' song

Hey, bottom line, if you can relate to it, more power to you, and to each his own and all that...
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Old 03-08-2006, 01:49 PM   #39
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Default Re: I find it hard not to sing this toe tappin' song

yeah, me too. if you like it great. I dont, and thats ok too.
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Old 03-08-2006, 01:50 PM   #40
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Default Re: I find it hard not to sing this toe tappin' song

Whatever happen to the Sugar Hill Gang! The greatest rap song of all time. Those guys were true pioneers of rap music. If you remember they did not have to sing about "bitchies, killing cops and ho's" to have fun and to make good music. Same with metal, you have some bands that adopt the old cliche of satanic material. Then you have others that sing about real world events or problems within the government. I agree with Suit, to each his own. If you like it then buy it, if you don't then don't buy it! I for one may not like rap music, but it does hit home and inspire a large portion of america. For that reason I will say that it is needed, just don't expect everyone to like it or understand it. Thats what is great about america, we have a choice. I just choose to listen to fast hard pumping metal.
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