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An important history lesson for you TRUE Steelers fans!

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Old 09-29-2010, 04:51 PM   #1
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Default Canon Law

Ok, so we have the tread about Muslims and Sharia law...and I'm posting this here so I don't hijack that thread with this discussion that I feel is as important when discussing how religion changes a nations politics and its people. If we are going to discuss the disturbing trends of Sharia, we must also examine those of Canon Law and the Roman Catholic Church.

We all know the bloody history of the Catholic Church, we know about the ongoing investigations of child molestation, but not many people care to look into Canon Law and how it affects (and has affected) the people within the Church, and nations laws...including our own. Here's an overview of some disturbing trends within Canon Law and the Concordats who enforce them. Each is an article that can be viewed here...http://www.concordatwatch.eu/showsite.php?org_id=871

Concordat Strategy
For over 900 years concordats have been central to the Vatican's attempt to wrest power from the state. After the pope failed to get William the Conqueror to swear fealty to him, and his legate failed in his bid to rule the country and got chased out of England, in 1107 the pope finally managed to get the Henry I to sign the first concordat. These agreements with the Vatican, giving it political and financial privileges, have now been concluded with dozens of countries, with more appearing every year.

What are Concordats?
These church-state accords generally give the Church massive state subsidies and other privileges. They also permit Church employees to be hounded about their private lives. Yet as “international treaties”, concordats bypass the democratic process, making parliaments powerless to modify, let alone revoke them.

The Vatican’s triple crown: church, government and state
“The Vatican is inserted into the international community because it is a state; once there, it behaves like a church.”[1] By setting up three legal identities and then adroitly switching from one to another, the Vatican has obtained unprecedented legal rights and international influence. This article has been translated into Portuguese.

Vatican smokescreen on human rights
The Vatican tries to quietly elevate Chuch doctrine above human rights. It has not signed some human rights treaties and in some others has made “reservations” which keep it from having to comply. This strategy gives the Church leverage, prevents it from being held accountable for priestly abuse, and protects its courts from charges that they violate the right to a fair trial.

Concordats promote authoritarianism
Authoritarianism concentrates power in one man or group. It tends not to remain at the top, but to pervade society at all levels. Blind obedience comes to be seen as the necessary glue for keeping society together, and it is applauded by the mini-dictators throughout such a society. However, as recent research shows, a lack of power is deeply damaging to the individual.

The left gets a modus vivendi, the right a concordat
Concordats have traditionally been made with rightwing governments, whether absolute monarchies or fascist dictatorships. However, only a quiet working arrangement has been made with authoritarian governments on the left, as these compete with the Church ideologically, rather than complementing it.

Concordats help control women
Concordats can be a powerful tool for social control. These Vatican “treaties” can prohibit divorce, get a woman fired for remarrying or even deny her access to sex education and family planning. Concordats help keep women married and bearing children for the Church. Yet studies have shown that most Catholics worldwide disagree with many key Vatican doctrines — as do many priests.

Ten quotes on concordats
Quotes from popes, prelates and critics give a lively look at Vatican concordats from many points of view.

Concordat agenda, 1075: the “Papal dictation”
This internal Vatican memo was dictated by Gregory VII near the beginning of his papacy. It sets an agenda for increasing papal power, and underlies the pope's demand that William the Conqueror pay him fealty. The English king's refusal helped shift the power struggle from outright Vatican sovereignty of Christian nations to Vatican control over their bishops, (the “investiture controversy”), and led to the earliest concordats.

Perspectives: The Second Coming of papal politics
Christoph Prantner of Der Standard offers this view from Austria, which has long experience of Church involvement in politics. The debate about Islam, he says, is also reviving political Catholicism. In Madrid, Paris and Rome the boundaries between church and state are becoming blurred, raising the danger of a return to theological politics.

Canon Law
This Canon (or Church) Law is the Christian counterpart to (Jewish) Halakha, Hindu Law and Sharia. Concordats enable thr Roman Catholic version of Canon Law to influence the lives of Church employees and those who must rely on Church-administered social service agencies....

Canon Law can trump clerics' civil rights
A Swiss priest was forbidden to research or publish anything about Opus Dei until its founder was safely canonised. A Polish priest was banned from investigating or writing anything about clerical complicity with the Communist Secret Service. And countless others who never make it into the newspapers suffer the same fate. For they are bound by Canon Law, the Church regulations whose jurisdiction is guaranteed by many concordats.
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Old 09-29-2010, 06:54 PM   #2
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Default Re: Canon Law

Thank you. I'm going to let others post before I vomit up all of my usual anti-religious bile. This thread is very much appreciated. Intellectual consistency... what a novel idea!
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Old 09-29-2010, 08:24 PM   #3
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Default Re: Canon Law

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Originally Posted by ricardisimo View Post
Thank you. I'm going to let others post before I vomit up all of my usual anti-religious bile. This thread is very much appreciated. Intellectual consistency... what a novel idea!
GTFO of my country !!!
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Old 09-30-2010, 02:48 AM   #4
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Default Re: Canon Law

Awww now Zu is gonna be pissed off when he wakes up in the morning.
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Old 09-30-2010, 09:08 PM   #5
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Default Re: Canon Law

Wow the Catholic threat really concerns me now!

Well if I were a 12 year old alter boy it might, but A. I'm not 12, B, I've never beern Catholic, C I really see no relevant threat to the citizens of this country from the Catholic Church.

How many Islamic attacks on these shores have been thwarted since 9-11? How much carnage would those attacks have caused if carried out?

Sorry but the equivilence that's been inferred really isn't.

But thanks I'll keep my eyes open for those sneaky Catholics all the same.
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Old 09-30-2010, 09:13 PM   #6
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Default Re: Canon Law

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Awww now Zu is gonna be pissed off when he wakes up in the morning.
Why? You think the Catholic church might be planning on a teror attack in the New York Subway? Maybe some disgruntled Priests gonna take down the Sears tower?

Breaking news the Catholic church is power mad and money hungry! Shocking! Now tell me something i haven't known since I was about 10.
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Old 09-30-2010, 09:36 PM   #7
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Default Re: Canon Law

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Why? You think the Catholic church might be planning on a teror attack in the New York Subway? Maybe some disgruntled Priests gonna take down the Sears tower?

Breaking news the Catholic church is power mad and money hungry! Shocking! Now tell me something i haven't known since I was about 10.
They let their priests touch little boys and do nothing about it? They don't allow women to get a divorce even if their husband beats and rapes them (excommunication)? Refusing to help the needy in states and countries that allow gay marriage? It's involvement with Hitler?

I could go on if you wish. I hate extremist Muslims, but at least they're not wolves in sheep clothes ya know. The Catholic Church (IMO) is just as evil, they just do a better job of hiding it.
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Old 09-30-2010, 09:59 PM   #8
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Default Re: Canon Law

some people consider the IRA catholic terrorist ...

Quote:
Zero Tolerance at Ground Zero

The terrorist history of a Catholic priest in Northern Ireland—and the reaction of his victims—ought to serve as a lesson about how to overcome bigotry.

I was just beginning to think that this long summer of intolerance was coming to an end. American hysteria about the non-mosque that’s not at Ground Zero seems to be subsiding just a bit. The French government might be backing away from its ginned-up xenophobia amid reports the prime minister isn’t really on board with the president’s right-wing rhetoric. There’s even a chance that peace talks between Israelis and Palestinians will get back on track at a summit in Washington next week. Whew. Then I picked up a copy of this morning’s London Times and discovered a whole new reason for some people with old wounds to start hating each other anew.
Splashed across two pages is the story of a Roman Catholic priest who appears to have participated in car bombings that slaughtered nine people, Protestants and Catholics alike, in the little village of Claudy in Northern Ireland back in 1972. Among the dead were a mother of eight, two teenagers, and a little girl. Police investigators concluded that the late Father James Chesney had a role in the act, and he may even have ordered it.


In the aftermath, church officials allegedly helped protect Chesney from prosecution—and colluded with British officials in the process. Their ostensible motivation was concern that public knowledge of a priest’s involvement would have made that bloodiest year of the sectarian Troubles in Northern Ireland even bloodier. So the church hierarchy, typically, thought the best approach was to move him to another parish, out of the way and out of the reach of the law. Chesney died in Ireland of natural causes in 1980. In 2002, after the 30th anniversary of the attack, the case was reopened. But there has never been a conviction.



The basic account of these events and conspiracies is drawn from a detailed report published this week by the police ombudsman of Northern Ireland, Al Hutchinson. This is not rumor. It is the result of extensive government investigations, and the case it makes against Father Chesney and those who covered for him is, to say the least, damning.


So should we now think twice or three times about letting anybody build a Catholic place of worship or community center in our town? After all, if some priests are terrorists (not to mention pedophiles), aren’t all Catholics suspect?


Video muted: click volume for sound ‘A Little Intolerant, But Good Reason To Be’ Protesters for and against the building of a Muslim community center near Ground Zero talk about their reasons for supporting or opposing the project.

Of course not. But you get the point: it is the height of folly—and prejudice—to make a whole group of believers face angry abuse and protests because of the actions of a minuscule number of extremists and criminals. For many centuries, some Catholics and some Protestants, and some Jews and some Muslims, have been responsible for carrying out atrocities, convinced that they had a God-given right to murder anyone who got in their way. That should never be an excuse to condemn them all, even if some people see the terrorists as freedom fighters.

continued

http://www.newsweek.com/2010/08/25/w...tolerance.html
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Old 09-30-2010, 10:01 PM   #9
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Default Re: Canon Law

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They let their priests touch little boys and do nothing about it?

They don't let them, they certainly don't encourage them, they just don't do enough to stop them or punish then afterwards.
The stupidiest thing the Catholic church ever did was to prevent their clergy from marrying. It's an unnatural state for a man to live celibate, and when you only recruit men who don't take woman you're just asking for trouble
.


They don't allow women to get a divorce even if their husband beats and rapes them (excommunication)?

Funny I know plenty of divorced Catholic woman and I don't know of one that was ever excommunicated. In fact I have several divorced Catholic relatives that are still very active in their church.

I agree the Church's stance on divorce is archaic and stupid, but I don't think it's enforced to the degree it once was. and of course if you're rich enough you can always buy an annulment from the church, the Kennedy's have ben doing it for years
.



Refusing to help the needy in states and countries that allow gay marriage? It's involvement with Hitler?

Still the Hitler thing? We're talking 60 years ago with the Hitler already.

I could go on if you wish. I hate extremist Muslims, but at least they're not wolves in sheep clothes ya know. The Catholic Church (IMO) is just as evil, they just do a better job of hiding it.
Yes there's some evil cretins in the Catholic Church no doubt, Vatican City is a particuliar cesspool. But refusing to help needy states that go against Church doctrine isn't the same as forced conversion at the hand of the knife. Honor killings, stoning adulterers and gays etc...
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Old 09-30-2010, 10:27 PM   #10
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Default Re: Canon Law

I love how funding and supporting Hitler 60 years ago isn't a valid argument anymore. That's classic.

How about the fact that they not only hide their kiddie touching priests from law enforcement by moving them around, but they also have refused to sign a number of human rights bills? Or that they have kept Africa poor and AIDS ridden? Cause you really do have to keep in mind when discussing the Catholic Church issue, that we're not just talking about the Church in the US, we're talking worldwide. You like to reference things that Islam does worldwide, but only apply things like the Church not allowing divorce to US only. The Catholic Church is not predominant in the US lol.

Don't do enough to stop their priests from molesting children...LMFAO. Seriously. Go read a few articles on it, the Church has PAID OFF FAMILIES to keep them quiet about it.

Quote:
The Vatican tries to quietly elevate Chuch doctrine above human rights. It has not signed some human rights treaties and in some others has made “reservations” which keep it from having to comply. This strategy gives the Church leverage, prevents it from being held accountable for priestly abuse, and protects its courts from charges that they violate the right to a fair trial.
“Human rights language is being co-opted by those with an anti-human rights agenda, among governments but also armed groups and even within civil society.” — Claudio Cordone, Secretary General, Amnesty International, 2010 [1]


♦ Vatican attack on human rights dressed up as need to counterbalance rights with duties

To undercut human rights without engaging in a potentially damaging frontal attack, the Vatican attempts to turn back the clock. It tries to return to the Middle Ages before the advent of human rights when Church taught that people had duties, but no unconditonal rights. Humans were owned by God and had duties to their Creator. This kept people humble: the idea of human rights didn't yet exist.

In his Caritas in Veritate Benedict XVI cautions against “alleged rights, arbitrary and non-essential in nature”. [2] The rationale is that human rights are arbitrary because they don't come from God, whose spokesman happens to be the pope. And Benedict goes on to say that duties are needed to “set a limit on rights”. This enables him, in a roundabout way, to attack the basic idea of human rights, which is that they're unconditional. His assault becomes even more indirect when he tries to replace “human rights” with something called “natural rights”. These are held to derive from something else called “natural law” which just happens to conform to Church doctrine. This can be managed because “natural law is abstract and vague to the point of making its application to concrete cases extremely difficult. It requires an authoritative interpreter, the Church.” [3]

Pope is using the smokescreen of theology to mask his attack on human rights. People get lost in this maze of theological justifications, concentrating on them, rather than on the fact that they're simply designed to reach the conclusion the Vatican wants: that Church doctrine, not human rights is the final arbiter — for everyone.
Read more here...http://www.concordatwatch.eu/showtop...eader_id=40301

Again, the Catholic church is JUST as evil and dangerous as extremist Islam. They just terrorize people in different ways.
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