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Old 10-07-2010, 03:08 AM   #11
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Default Re: "The Flag of Islam will one day fly over the White House"

Yes, what we need is more religion in our government.


And don't kid yourself MoP... Christians are no better.
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Old 10-07-2010, 04:31 AM   #12
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Default Re: "The Flag of Islam will one day fly over the White House"

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Originally Posted by ricardisimo View Post
Yes, what we need is more religion in our government.


And don't kid yourself MoP... Christians are no better.
to a point i agree..... but christianity has at least somewhat evolved..... i find myself agreeing with this guy

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Old 10-07-2010, 05:29 AM   #13
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Default Re: "The Flag of Islam will one day fly over the White House"

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Originally Posted by Shea View Post
That there is part of the problem.

Get rid of the hatred and your bias.

You are only adding to the problem instead of looking for a solution.

And you along with too many others are creating the situation that we now find ourselves in.
How's this shea, I don't want the freaking flag of Christianity ( if there is one) Judaism, Budism or any other religion flying over the White House. I believe in seperation of church and state as prescribed in our constitutution.

and here's another thing shea, get in the moment of the thread, the guy wasn't suggesting the flag of Isam would be flying in unison next to the flags of all the other religions of the world and we'd all have a group hug and sing Kumbaya. This aint a disney movie, Muslim's when in the majority, even the so called moderate Muslims aren't real big on inclusion. The banner of Islam generally flies alone.

Again the thought of the banner lof Islam flying over the White House makes me want to puke.

And the real problem is naive well intended peaceniks like yourselves who bury their head in the sand to the real dangers that lie ahead. Neville Chamberlain reduxe.
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Old 10-07-2010, 05:39 AM   #14
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Default Re: "The Flag of Islam will one day fly over the White House"

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Originally Posted by ricardisimo View Post
Yes, what we need is more religion in our government.


And don't kid yourself MoP... Christians are no better.
Yeah actually they are. Much better in fact. Sure there's still a few brush fires among the cult and you have some situation arise here and there with some yokel inbred fundamentalist who gets carried away and does something unfortunate in the name of his god. But all the worlds other religions combined times 10 don't approach the mayhem currently being created in the world on a daily basis in the name of Allah. Sorry but that's the unfortunate truth.
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Old 10-07-2010, 09:37 AM   #15
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Default Re: "The Flag of Islam will one day fly over the White House"

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Yeah actually they are. Much better in fact. Sure there's still a few brush fires among the cult and you have some situation arise here and there with some yokel inbred fundamentalist who gets carried away and does something unfortunate in the name of his god. But all the worlds other religions combined times 10 don't approach the mayhem currently being created in the world on a daily basis in the name of Allah. Sorry but that's the unfortunate truth.
I doubt you even looked into the link I provided in the Catholic thread about corrupt missionaries in different nations, who are using force to convert people. Sorry, they aren't any better than the extremist Muslims who use force to convert people. Not in my mind.

At least the moderates side of the argument (from this vid) are rational. And it never sounded like much of the audience agreed with the kooky Muslim guy either. Can't keep picking out the extremists of one religion and saying that is the norm for all of them. It just isn't so.
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Old 10-07-2010, 10:24 AM   #16
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Default Re: "The Flag of Islam will one day fly over the White House"

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I doubt you even looked into the link I provided in the Catholic thread about corrupt missionaries in different nations, who are using force to convert people. Sorry, they aren't any better than the extremist Muslims who use force to convert people. Not in my mind.

At least the moderates side of the argument (from this vid) are rational. And it never sounded like much of the audience agreed with the kooky Muslim guy either. Can't keep picking out the extremists of one religion and saying that is the norm for all of them. It just isn't so.


Yeah I looked at your links and it's unfortunate that those sort of things are still happening . But it's a question of scale SCM. I mean honeastly how can you compare the two when the numbers are so overwhelmingly slanted towards jihadist violence around the world. I guarantee you if you took the atrocities of all the worlds other religions combined, then multiplied by ten it still wouldn't raise a pimple on the ass of the daily vulgarity that Muslim extremism is commiting.

Want an anology, radical Islam is the Philadelphia sports fan of religions.
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Old 10-07-2010, 10:36 AM   #17
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Default Re: "The Flag of Islam will one day fly over the White House"

http://in.reuters.com/article/idINIndia-51999620101006Saudis charges Filipinos for proselytising

http://nation.ittefaq.com/issues/201...7/news0339.htmForced marriage leads to minor girl's suicide

http://undhimmi.com/2010/10/07/londo...ining-mission/London tube driver planned terror mission

http://www.crosswalk.com/news/religiontoday/11639154/Muslims Force Expat Christian Teacher to Flee Maldives

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp...d3f21d3cc9.341Philippine massacre victims 'begged for mercy'

This is happening every day throughout the Muslim world, hell make that the world at large, every stinking corner, were not talking a remote group of missionary's in East Bum **** plying their idiocy.
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Old 10-07-2010, 10:43 AM   #18
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Default Re: "The Flag of Islam will one day fly over the White House"

Damn, this shit reminds me of StfU, it's like the same argument over and over and over again. Did this not all get hashed out in the numerous other threads? Instead on a bajillion Obama threads we have a bajillion Islam threads.
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Old 10-07-2010, 10:55 AM   #19
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Default Re: "The Flag of Islam will one day fly over the White House"

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Originally Posted by zulater View Post
Yeah I looked at your links and it's unfortunate that those sort of things are still happening . But it's a question of scale SCM. I mean honeastly how can you compare the two when the numbers are so overwhelmingly slanted towards jihadist violence around the world. I guarantee you if you took the atrocities of all the worlds other religions combined, then multiplied by ten it still wouldn't raise a pimple on the ass of the daily vulgarity that Muslim extremism is commiting.

Want an anology, radical Islam is the Philadelphia sports fan of religions.
You're kidding right? I know that right now, because of war in Afghanistan, that radical Islam is being thrust into the forefront, but didn't you take anything away from the articles I posted on the genocide in Rwanda? How Catholic priests and nuns took direct part in the genocide of a portion of the 500k - 800k Tutsis in the mid 90's?

Corrupt missionaries are still taking part in forced conversions, imprisonment, and sometimes murder, because they are culturally different.

So yes, from what I've read, it raises a lot more than a pimple. And it's only been briefly touched on, but terrorism at the hands of Protestants and Catholics in N. Ireland is long from over. Funny that the long going attacks there were never really labeled as religious terrorism (at least by the majority of medias), it was labeled (and is still labeled) as nationalistic terrorism.

That, in essence, is all any religious terrorism is when you break it down enough. It's extreme nationalism under the guise of religion. It's the same with Islam as it is/was with N. Ireland, Rwanda and Nazi Germany. Religion and supposed religious leaders always played a part, but the main goal is strictly political and national. Islamic terrorism was not the first, nor will it be the last, form of terrorism to use the guise of religion to further its extreme nationalistic views.

Thankfully, people don't much like being oppressed. Not even Muslims. And the oppressors are never the majority. There will always be fanatics who want to control the masses, but there will always be masses who are tired of being pushed to the limit. That is happening in in Afghanistan right now, and is evidenced by the fact that many Afghanis are willing to fight and die alongside the US (and other nations) troops rather than fight and die alongside a terroristic regime that would strip them of any and all freedoms. It's a common theme throughout history, and I don't figure it will ever change.

You can post all the news articles you want. That's fine, but it doesn't mean (by a long shot) that other terrorism (religious and nationalistic in nature...outside of Islamic) isn't being perpetrated in all corners of the globe. Trust me when I say this, news media KNOWS what sells right now, and what sells right now is Islamic terrorism. Bearded Muslims are the ultimate fear figure in the world at this moment, and there's a lot of people who are making big bucks by exploiting that. I'm not saying that people shouldn't be vigilant or informed about Islamic terrorism, it certainly exists, but the news is so goddamn slanted that one would think it's the ONLY form of terrorism that exists today. It's seriously gone beyond ridiculous, and people just eat this shit up on a daily basis and ask for more.
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Old 10-07-2010, 11:09 AM   #20
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Default Re: "The Flag of Islam will one day fly over the White House"

This is an older opinion piece, but it speaks volumes as to the problem of labeling acts of terrorism as strictly religious in nature.

Quote:
The label of Catholic terror was never used about the IRA
Fundamentalism is often a form of nationalism in religious disguise
(12)


Karen Armstrong
The Guardian, Monday 11 July 2005 00.03 BST
Article history
Last year I attended a conference in the US about security and intelligence in the so-called war on terror and was astonished to hear one of the more belligerent participants, who as far as I could tell had nothing but contempt for religion, strongly argue that as a purely practical expedient, politicians and the media must stop referring to "Muslim terrorism". It was obvious, he said, that the atrocities had nothing to do with Islam, and to suggest otherwise was not merely inaccurate but dangerously counterproductive.
Rhetoric is a powerful weapon in any conflict. We cannot hope to convert Osama bin Laden from his vicious ideology; our priority must be to stem the flow of young people into organisations such as al-Qaida, instead of alienating them by routinely coupling their religion with immoral violence. Incorrect statements about Islam have convinced too many in the Muslim world that the west is an implacable enemy. Yet, as we found at the conference, it is not easy to find an alternative for referring to this terrorism; however, the attempt can be a salutary exercise that reveals the complexity of what we are up against.

We need a phrase that is more exact than "Islamic terror". These acts may be committed by people who call themselves Muslims, but they violate essential Islamic principles. The Qur'an prohibits aggressive warfare, permits war only in self-defence and insists that the true Islamic values are peace, reconciliation and forgiveness. It also states firmly that there must be no coercion in religious matters, and for centuries Islam had a much better record of religious tolerance than Christianity.

Like the Bible, the Qur'an has its share of aggressive texts, but like all the great religions, its main thrust is towards kindliness and compassion. Islamic law outlaws war against any country in which Muslims are allowed to practice their religion freely, and forbids the use of fire, the destruction of buildings and the killing of innocent civilians in a military campaign. So although Muslims, like Christians or Jews, have all too often failed to live up to their ideals, it is not because of the religion per se.

We rarely, if ever, called the IRA bombings "Catholic" terrorism because we knew enough to realise that this was not essentially a religious campaign. Indeed, like the Irish republican movement, many fundamentalist movements worldwide are simply new forms of nationalism in a highly unorthodox religious guise. This is obviously the case with Zionist fundamentalism in Israel and the fervently patriotic Christian right in the US.

In the Muslim world, too, where the European nationalist ideology has always seemed an alien import, fundamentalisms are often more about a search for social identity and national self-definition than religion. They represent a widespread desire to return to the roots of the culture, before it was invaded and weakened by the colonial powers.

Because it is increasingly recognised that the terrorists in no way represent mainstream Islam, some prefer to call them jihadists, but this is not very satisfactory. Extremists and unscrupulous politicians have purloined the word for their own purposes, but the real meaning of jihad is not "holy war" but "struggle" or "effort." Muslims are commanded to make a massive attempt on all fronts - social, economic, intellectual, ethical and spiritual - to put the will of God into practice.

Sometimes a military effort may be a regrettable necessity in order to defend decent values, but an oft-quoted tradition has the Prophet Muhammad saying after a military victory: "We are coming back from the Lesser Jihad [ie the battle] and returning to the Greater Jihad" - the far more important, difficult and momentous struggle to reform our own society and our own hearts.

Jihad is thus a cherished spiritual value that, for most Muslims, has no connection with violence. Last year, at the University of Kentucky, I met a delightful young man called Jihad; his parents had given him that name in the hope that he would become not a holy warrior, but a truly spiritual man who would make the world a better place. The term jihadi terrorism is likely to be offensive, therefore, and will win no hearts or minds.

At our conference in Washington, many people favoured "Wahhabi terrorism". They pointed out that most of the hijackers on September 11 came from Saudi Arabia, where a peculiarly intolerant form of Islam known as Wahhabism was the state religion. They argued that this description would be popular with those many Muslims who tended to be hostile to the Saudis. I was not happy, however, because even though the narrow, sometimes bigoted vision of Wahhabism makes it a fruitful ground for extremism, the vast majority of Wahhabis do not commit acts of terror.

Bin Laden was not inspired by Wahhabism but by the writings of the Egyptian ideologue Sayyid Qutb, who was executed by President Nasser in 1966. Almost every fundamentalist movement in Sunni Islam has been strongly influenced by Qutb, so there is a good case for calling the violence that some of his followers commit "Qutbian terrorism." Qutb urged his followers to withdraw from the moral and spiritual barbarism of modern society and fight it to the death.

Western people should learn more about such thinkers as Qutb, and become aware of the many dramatically different shades of opinion in the Muslim world. There are too many lazy, unexamined assumptions about Islam, which tends to be regarded as an amorphous, monolithic entity. Remarks such as "They hate our freedom" may give some a righteous glow, but they are not useful, because they are rarely accompanied by a rigorous analysis of who exactly "they" are.

The story of Qutb is also instructive as a reminder that militant religiosity is often the product of social, economic and political factors. Qutb was imprisoned for 15 years in one of Nasser's vile concentration camps, where he and thousands of other members of the Muslim Brotherhood were subjected to physical and mental torture. He entered the camp as a moderate, but the prison made him a fundamentalist. Modern secularism, as he had experienced it under Nasser, seemed a great evil and a lethal assault on faith.

Precise intelligence is essential in any conflict. It is important to know who our enemies are, but equally crucial to know who they are not. It is even more vital to avoid turning potential friends into foes. By making the disciplined effort to name our enemies correctly, we will learn more about them, and come one step nearer, perhaps, to solving the seemingly intractable and increasingly perilous problems of our divided world.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2...nireland.july7
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