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Old 10-18-2010, 10:02 PM   #61
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Default Re: Gay parents more likely to have gay kids.

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Originally Posted by MasterOfPuppets View Post
i never said it was predominantly learned behaviour. i'm suggesting it could be . which is the premise of the article. not all pedo's were molested as children either. so are they somehow geneticly programmed to seek out children for sex ?
But then you have to accept the converse as true as well. If being gay is a learned behavior, wouldn't being straight be as well? No one wants to answer that because then the whole article breaks down at that point. Mom is on to something. There are far more straight people in the world than gay people. So if it's a learned thing, you would think the straights would eventually weed out all the gays.

Or maybe something else is at play......
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Old 10-18-2010, 10:04 PM   #62
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Default Re: Gay parents more likely to have gay kids.

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Marriage was ordained by God to be one MAN and one WOMAN. Adam and Eve NOT Adam and Steve...

This is just my opinion, for whatever it may or may not be worth. And I hope that this does not get me banned from here because I really do love hanging out here. Keeping my fingers crossed....
You're absolutely right according to Christian belief, but what's that have to do with our government in light of separation of church and state and all? Would it be OK with you if the government decided to tax your religion? Of course not.
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Old 10-18-2010, 10:07 PM   #63
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Default Re: Gay parents more likely to have gay kids.

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But then you have to accept the converse as true as well. If being gay is a learned behavior, wouldn't being straight be as well? No one wants to answer that because then the whole article breaks down at that point. Mom is on to something. There are far more straight people in the world than gay people. So if it's a learned thing, you would think the straights would eventually weed out all the gays.

Or maybe something else is at play......
i never said it is learned behaviour , i said it could be learned behaviour. being straight isn't learned behaviour . it is genetic programming for reproduction. do you see animals running around butt f*cking each other ? does it take a higher brain function to over ride tens of thousands of years of natural instinct ?
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Old 10-18-2010, 10:26 PM   #64
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Default Re: Gay parents more likely to have gay kids.

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i never said it is learned behaviour , i said it could be learned behaviour. being straight isn't learned behaviour . it is genetic programming for reproduction. do you see animals running around butt f*cking each other ? does it take a higher brain function to over ride tens of thousands of years of natural instinct ?
Well, yes, there are some primates that at times perform homosexual acts. At least I've seen videos of two female chimps "pleasuring" each other.

And being gay isn't anything new...it's been documented for thousands of years, so apparently some people are just programmed differently. That's just the conclusion I've come to anyhow.
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Old 10-18-2010, 10:33 PM   #65
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Default Re: Gay parents more likely to have gay kids.

Gay parents usually train their kids to be gay because they think its the cool thing to be or something... The kids don't grow up gay just because their parents are gay, they are usually forced to be gay... I've heard stories of straight parents training their kids to grow up gay.. its rediculous... But its like christians who train their kids to grow up straight
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Old 10-18-2010, 11:10 PM   #66
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Default Re: Gay parents more likely to have gay kids.

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Originally Posted by MasterOfPuppets View Post
i never said it is learned behaviour , i said it could be learned behaviour. being straight isn't learned behaviour . it is genetic programming for reproduction. do you see animals running around butt f*cking each other ? does it take a higher brain function to over ride tens of thousands of years of natural instinct ?
Actually homosexuality is common in the animal kingdom, just as common as it is in us. http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...gayanimal.html

All I'm saying is if being gay is somehow learned, then how come you can't just "unlearn" it?

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Gay parents usually train their kids to be gay because they think its the cool thing to be or something... The kids don't grow up gay just because their parents are gay, they are usually forced to be gay... I've heard stories of straight parents training their kids to grow up gay.. its rediculous... But its like christians who train their kids to grow up straight
Do you really think someone would choose to be gay?? I mean look at the feathers it ruffles on an internet message board. Who wold voluntarily subject themselves to that. The gay couples I know wish nothing more than to have their kids be straight so they don't have to deal with intolerance. The world is cruel enough as it is.
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Old 10-18-2010, 11:31 PM   #67
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Default Re: Gay parents more likely to have gay kids.

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Originally Posted by SteelersinCA View Post
Why should the straight couple get the kid? How is that your default? If everything else is equal, maybe the one who put in for the kid first should get the kid. Why would that not be the default? If everything else in the world is equal, which we all know is never the case, why should the straight couple get the kid? How is that easy? The easy answer, based on years and years of history would be the first to put in. If this were a house, who would get the house? Whoever placed the offer first. If this were a piece of land, who would get it? Whoever claimed it first. If this was the sunk titanic, who would get it? The people that found it first!! If everything is equal, whoever put in first gets the child, and that's the easy answer.

Explain to me why, if everything else is equal, the straight couple getting the child is the easy answer? If everything is as equal as you say, the kid should turn out exactly the same right? So why does it matter who gets the child?

Why do we ignore basic knowledge when we view something which we have obvious bias for or against? Ever hear of Charlie Munger? Probably not, but I bet you've heard of his partner, Warren Buffet. Here's an article you should all read AND THEN maybe we can get to some honest inquiries. Of course maybe you don't think the guy making billions of dollars knows anything about human psychology?

http://www.scribd.com/doc/2260984/mu...n-misjudgement
let's go this route.......all things being equal, let's say they put in for the child at the same time. all things being equal, as far as the essentials of life: security, food, water, shelter. the generalized "equal" let's say. it would be "easy" because it has been proven throughout human history, childeren are better in a home with both a mother and father figure. learning gender roles, discpline issues, simple things of that nature. that is why it has become a huge issue for fatherless children being raised by single mothers in many issues related to success and crime deterrence, to put it simply.
just as a family with two caring/loving parents is preferrable to a single parent.
i realize not all things will ever be "equal", but it is a starting point to start the discussion. are you saying, if those things are all equal, then it wouldn't be more preferential for the straight couple to have the kid, then the gay couple? if you say yes, then we will never agree on that part. this isn't based on any pre-conceived bias, but human history, genetics, science, sociology, etc.
coming from that, we can then get into "is it better" than this or that scenario, for all of the other possibilites that happen today. doesn't make gays adopting kids bad, or make those kids less capable, but it goes to what could, or maybe, be ther preferred way of doing things. you shoot for the ideal, and if the ideal cannot be reached, then you make the best way you can.

best way i can explain it. to say that, essentially, both types of couples are the exact same, or equal, in a sense, in the affects on the children being raised, to another, is, in my mind not being honest.
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Old 10-18-2010, 11:45 PM   #68
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Default Re: Gay parents more likely to have gay kids.

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Originally Posted by urgle burgle View Post
let's go this route.......all things being equal, let's say they put in for the child at the same time. all things being equal, as far as the essentials of life: security, food, water, shelter. the generalized "equal" let's say. it would be "easy" because it has been proven throughout human history, childeren are better in a home with both a mother and father figure. learning gender roles, discpline issues, simple things of that nature. that is why it has become a huge issue for fatherless children being raised by single mothers in many issues related to success and crime deterrence, to put it simply.
just as a family with two caring/loving parents is preferrable to a single parent.
i realize not all things will ever be "equal", but it is a starting point to start the discussion. are you saying, if those things are all equal, then it wouldn't be more preferential for the straight couple to have the kid, then the gay couple? if you say yes, then we will never agree on that part. this isn't based on any pre-conceived bias, but human history, genetics, science, sociology, etc.
coming from that, we can then get into "is it better" than this or that scenario, for all of the other possibilites that happen today. doesn't make gays adopting kids bad, or make those kids less capable, but it goes to what could, or maybe, be ther preferred way of doing things. you shoot for the ideal, and if the ideal cannot be reached, then you make the best way you can.

best way i can explain it. to say that, essentially, both types of couples are the exact same, or equal, in a sense, in the affects on the children being raised, to another, is, in my mind not being honest.
You assume that the child won't learn gender roles with homosexual parents. You assume a gay couple is inferior to a straight couple. We aren't talking about single gay parents, we're talking about couples. Show me a single scientific article that says children are better off in a straight home. That it somehow produces "better" children. You won't find it. It doesn't exist.

That's the fatal flaw with that hypothetical. If everything is equal and ends up the same, how can we say one is better than the other? Equal is equal. There is no one side is better than the other if they are both equal. If you put 50 lbs on one side of the scale and 50 lbs on the other, which one is going to weigh more?

What you want is to paint someone into a corner so they have to accept your premise. The hypothetical ASSUMES things aren't equal by drawing the conclusion it's better to be raised by a straight couple. Better by whose definition? So what you really want is us to adopt the conclusion of the article and Zu that children raised by gay couple have a higher probability of being gay. Terrific, does that make someone inherently better?

If history has shown that straight people raise better children, first I'd like for you to show me one scientific study supporting that. Then I would like for you to explain to me the countless atrocities against humanity committed by children of straight families.

Better indeed.

http://www.time.com/time/health/arti...994480,00.html Oops, not better there.
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/opinion...ld-392653.html Not there either.
http://parenting.blogs.nytimes.com/2...etter-parents/ Don't look now, a growing number of research!!!
http://www.labspaces.net/106040/Vide...through_school More research.

Need I go on?

Here's an article that cuts to the heart of the matter without the silly hypothetical. http://parenting.families.com/blog/g...s-than-optimal

Last edited by SteelersinCA; 10-18-2010 at 11:58 PM.
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Old 10-18-2010, 11:59 PM   #69
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Default Re: Gay parents more likely to have gay kids.

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That's the fatal flaw with that hypothetical. If everything is equal and ends up the same, how can we say one is better than the other? Equal is equal. There is no one side is better than the other if they are both equal. If you put 50 lbs on one side of the scale and 50 lbs on the other, which one is going to weigh more?

What you want is to paint someone into a corner so they have to accept your premise. The hypothetical ASSUMES things aren't equal by drawing the conclusion it's better to be raised by a straight couple. Better by whose definition? So what you really want is us to adopt the conclusion of the article and Zu that children raised by gay couple have a higher probability of being gay. Terrific, does that make someone inherently better?

If history has shown that straight people raise better children, first I'd like for you to show me one scientific study supporting that. Then I would like for you to explain to me the countless atrocities against humanity committed by children of straight families.

Better indeed.
all right, let's try this again. equal doesn't mean "100 %" equal in everything. and i think that you are smart enough to know what i essentially meant. and, no, i don't want you to adopt any conclusion, but that what you discern for yourself. their is always an "ideal" way of doing things, if possible. i don't care if the kids turn out gay or not, really. if that is their choice, so be it. i seriously doubt their is a long-term nor credible study to prove or disprove nor disprove what you are asking. i doubt that anyone thougth there would be a need to. so you would have to just "assume" some things. would gender roles be more easily taught by the same/or opposite sex? that would be one critical thing, or are we so in a place of unicorns and pixies that there is no difference in gender?
and your point of saying that, in a sense, you disavow my premise, by mentioning all the attrocities of straight families, is no argument. since straight families have been the norm for thousands of years, of course their is going to be a large occurence by percentage, if that's what you are driving at.
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Old 10-19-2010, 12:04 AM   #70
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Default Re: Gay parents more likely to have gay kids.

So what you really want to know is what type of home do I think it would be easiest to learn gender roles? My answer would be one in which they are taught best. Life isn't as black and white as you want to make this out to be. You're asking for an impossible answer. Every variable is going to change the answer. To account for every variable is insanity.

What the studies show, the ones I linked above also link to other studies, is that there is no discernible difference between children raised by gay or straight parents. Is that an acceptable answer?
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