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Old 03-23-2006, 12:40 AM   #61
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Default Re: Adam Vinatieri a Colt

Quote:
Originally Posted by Petesburgh66
Big freaking deal. They have done nothing to improve themselves in the off season.
Thanks for your concern, very nice of you, but I suspect they'll be OK.

Love and XXXXs, Hardwork
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Old 03-23-2006, 01:16 AM   #62
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Default Re: Adam Vinatieri a Colt

Quote:
Originally Posted by tony hipchest
believe it or not kickers do miss kicks. wilkins and g. anderson are the only 2 to have a perfect season. so as great as he is (or was) hes not being resigned because of one choke against denver in the regular season? i think they have p. edinger coming in for a visit. atleast he has outside experience. but the pressure to live up to vinatieri, especially in clutch situations, is gonna be tough for any kicker to live up to, especially a rookie. vanderjact is the pats best option. they get the most accurate kicker in the game (clutch kicks isnt an official stat) and probably save half a mil to a mil / year. those frosted tips will look great in chilly foxboro.

damn i forgot vanderjagt had a perfect season too in 03
Its pretty black and white I think.

The Patriots simply do not think that AV is worth the money he wanted to paid, which means they obviously think no kicker is worth it.

Every year the Pats have faced these tough decisions - and they aren't afraid to make the unpopular decision to do what is best for the team.

I remember all the fuss about the Patriots cutting Troy Brown a year or two back - I think that one worked out ok.

Clutch kicks may not be official stats but they definitely are a researchable stat - what use is Vanderjagt's 100% completion rate in the regular season if he misses the big one in the playoffs?

The guy is a proven misser of big kicks - why on earth would the Patriots invest relatively large money in him?

Sure its going to be tough for the new guy - rookie or not - but that is life - teams who have success eventually have to replace parts of the success-making machinery.

Lawyer Milloy and Ty Law spring to mind.

The outcry of the Boston media after the Patriots were beat up 31-0 by the Bills in the first game of Milloy's Bills career was something to behold - fake stories about how the Pats team hated BB magically appeared in the national media....its all part of the circus that follows a winning team.

Most people had forgotten the outcry by the time the Pats had gotten around to dishing out their own 31-0 hammering of the Bills at the tail end of the season - on their way to another SB victory I might add.

If fans were in control of the team - then the NFL would be made up of 32 Washington Redskins - all going crazy for over-priced FA's.

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They've been great for a while now, three Super Bowls' worth of great. But only this season have the New England Patriots become The Show, the must-see team of stars, pretty boys and reformed bad boys. Suddenly, the Patriots are not simply great; they're compelling, fascinating, appearing to be almighty and a touch lawless.
The Patriots didn't bother with swagger to start this NFL season; they went straight to defiant. Either you're one of them or you're about to get crushed.
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Old 03-23-2006, 01:40 AM   #63
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Default Re: Adam Vinatieri a Colt

Quote:
Originally Posted by tony hipchest
great local article on how "millions of people throughout new england felt" with vinatieri leaving to the colts:

http://patriots.bostonherald.com/pat...ticleid=131613

and an exerpt:


"the difference between the money in Indy and Foxboro wound up being chump change against Bill Belichick’s salary cap and relative nickels against Bob Kraft’s bottom line. Perhaps the best clutch kicker in the history of the NFL and one of the most popular athletes Boston ever has known now is wearing enemy colors because the Pats refused to budge off their hard-line philosophy.

You can call Belichick and Scott Pioli consistent (although you’d be overrating that; more below). I call them stubborn, foolishly so in this case.

Vinatieri agreed to a multi-year deal that reportedly comes with a $3.5 million signing bonus and is worth $2.5 million a season over the first three years of the deal. When all the numbers are factored in, Vinatieri’s average annual cap value will fall in the $3 million range. The NFL salary cap will be $102 million in 2006 and $109 million in 2007. The Pats currently enjoy around $19 million in cap space. Kraft brings in over $250 million in revenue a year. We could run Vinatieri’s percentages for you, but you get the point.

It’s chicken feed."


bwock bwock



and another:

"But remember, their record of picking players has been more spotty than fans recognize. Last year’s haul - Chad Brown, Monty Beisel, David Terrell, Starks - is a good example. And if anyone can give me an explanation why Starks was worth $3.5 million but Vinatieri wasn’t, I want to hear it."


this articles loaded with them:

"But if the Pats are so bent on consistency, then how do you explain what happened with Corey Dillon last year? Entering the final year of his contract at a fair price of just over $3 million, the Pats felt the need to lavish a multi-year extension on the 31-year-old running back that guaranteed him $10 million over two years. The Pats then watched in horror as Dillon aged in front of their eyes."



"So how you feel about this move comes down to what you trust more: the judgment of Belichick and Pioli or the accuracy of Vinatieri’s right leg. They’re both pretty good, but if you run the numbers you’ll find the percentages favor Adam.

In the meantime, be sure to clean the puke off your shoes."




i can understand the steelers letting el go but this baffles me.
This is the kind of revisionist history that the Boston media absolutely specialises in.

If it wasn't so sad that a home town paper would keep putting this stuff out there it would be funny.

Its very easy for Mr Felger to sit there at the seasons end and lambast the SP/BB team for some FA moves that didnt work out.

The comparison he makes in hindsight about the comparative values of Starks and AV makes me laugh - starting corners (thats what the Pats thought they were acquiring) are worth alot more, play alot more downs than a kicker.

Starks spent pretty much the whole season injured - fully healthy who knows what he might have achieved.

Chad Brown is a guy who could have given us a nice rotation option at OLB - unfortunately Tedy Bruschi would miss the first 6 games and our other established ILB - Ted Johnson retired on the eve of the season giving the Pats no chance to cover his absence - this forced CB inside - where he is clearly not suited.

I expect some good things from Beisel this year - alot of Patriot nation has written him off already - but I seen enough when he was playing in a team that wasn't on its knees due to multiple injuries to make me believe he can be a good acquistion for us.

The comparison of Dillon with AV is again laughable - a RB who has run for a career best 1600yds and led you to the SB the previous year is worth alot more to the team than a place kicker.

Dillon not only eats up the clock, but he takes the heat off Brady and improves the efficiency of the play action pass.

Of course none of this worked out last year due to the injury bug that swept the Patriots locker room - if a fully healthy Dillon had compiled them stats I would agree with the writer, as it is he wasn't...so I dont.

Who do I trust SP/BB or AV? Another idle comparison - if SP/BB hadn't done their jobs so well for the last 5 years the Pats would not have been regular visitors to the post season and winners of the SB - regardless of how many FG's and XP's MR Vinatieri kicked.

I'll stack my chips with the guys with their eyes on the big picture - SP and BB.

NM
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They've been great for a while now, three Super Bowls' worth of great. But only this season have the New England Patriots become The Show, the must-see team of stars, pretty boys and reformed bad boys. Suddenly, the Patriots are not simply great; they're compelling, fascinating, appearing to be almighty and a touch lawless.
The Patriots didn't bother with swagger to start this NFL season; they went straight to defiant. Either you're one of them or you're about to get crushed.

Last edited by Livinginthe past; 03-23-2006 at 01:57 AM.
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Old 03-23-2006, 02:01 AM   #64
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Default Re: Adam Vinatieri a Colt

Here is a little perspective offered by another member of the media.

Its a good read and covers some of the areas I outlined above.

http://www.ecnnews.com/cgi-bin/15/et...0322-fn+page_0

NM
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They've been great for a while now, three Super Bowls' worth of great. But only this season have the New England Patriots become The Show, the must-see team of stars, pretty boys and reformed bad boys. Suddenly, the Patriots are not simply great; they're compelling, fascinating, appearing to be almighty and a touch lawless.
The Patriots didn't bother with swagger to start this NFL season; they went straight to defiant. Either you're one of them or you're about to get crushed.
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Old 03-23-2006, 02:44 AM   #65
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Default Re: Adam Vinatieri a Colt

The Patriots entertained free agent kicker Paul Edinger on Tuesday. No contract offer was made, however, and New England may still be considering former Colts kicker Mike Vanderjagt, according to the Boston Herald.Edinger probably makes the most sense for the Patriots, given his ability to kick in cold weather from his days as a Chicago Bear, and given the fact that most Patriots fans would probably kill themselves if the hated Vanderjagt was brought in. Edinger has been accurate on about 75 percent of his kicks and probably would come cheaper than Vanderjagt as well.
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Old 03-23-2006, 04:36 AM   #66
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Default Re: Adam Vinatieri a Colt

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Originally Posted by Livinginthe past
If fans were in control of the team - then the NFL would be made up of 32 Washington Redskins - all going crazy for over-priced FA's.

NM
That's right, and/or they'd all be weighed down by sentimental favorites.

The reality is this is a business, and decisions have to made in regards to what is in the best interest of the business, the team, itself.

Further, you run into this all your life. School friends move away. Then you leave high school and go to college. The you leave those friends and go to work. Then people go to other businesses, or get fired. Then your kids grow up and leave. Then your parents die. Etc.

Anyway, a lot of what's written on this thread by Steeler fans is just a way to take a shot at the Patriots. It has nothing to do with Adam Vinatieri.

Sometimes you have to point out the obvious I guess.
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Old 03-23-2006, 04:48 AM   #67
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Default Re: Adam Vinatieri a Colt

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Originally Posted by hardwork
That's right, and/or they'd all be weighed down by sentimental favorites.

The reality is this is a business, and decisions have to made in regards to what is in the best interest of the business, the team, itself.

Further, you run into this all your life. School friends move away. Then you leave high school and go to college. The you leave those friends and go to work. Then people go to other businesses, or get fired. Then your kids grow up and leave. Then your parents die. Etc.

Anyway, a lot of what's written on this thread by Steeler fans is just a way to take a shot at the Patriots. It has nothing to do with Adam Vinatieri.

Sometimes you have to point out the obvious I guess.
Sure I can see that a few of the Steeler fans are just using this subject as bait - luckily subtlety isn't a fort? with these guys so its all pretty transparent and harmless.

A couple of the guys might be interested in a Pats fans opinion on it - so its worth replying.

Its amazing how many people will say "in BB we trust" - normally right before they demonstrate how little faith they have - this is rife over on the Patriots board.

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They've been great for a while now, three Super Bowls' worth of great. But only this season have the New England Patriots become The Show, the must-see team of stars, pretty boys and reformed bad boys. Suddenly, the Patriots are not simply great; they're compelling, fascinating, appearing to be almighty and a touch lawless.
The Patriots didn't bother with swagger to start this NFL season; they went straight to defiant. Either you're one of them or you're about to get crushed.
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Old 03-23-2006, 08:09 AM   #68
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Default Re: Adam Vinatieri a Colt

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3 to be 4
hey guys, ive missed the talk. arrived in KC last week. most bizarre 2 weeks of my life. im the middle of the move my mother passed away. 2 days before our movers were scheduled to arrive in SC i got the call that she was fading. I flew up to New England to see her, flew back on Saturday to Columbia, drove 80 miles to Florence, got the family, turened around, and drove 300 miles west to Atlanta. When we were in St Louis i got word she had passed away.
im still a little stunned.
Sorry for your loss...
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Old 03-23-2006, 10:28 AM   #69
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Default Re: Adam Vinatieri a Colt

thanks again for the kinds words guys. sometimes im wondering "why am i so down?" then i have to remind myself - oh yeah, you're Mom died?? I still havent cried.
I suspect once the move settles down and i have some time and space it will sink in.

as for the topic...... Im for bringing Edinger in to replace Vinatieri. And im wondering about Eric Moulds as a complement to Branch.
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Old 03-23-2006, 10:39 AM   #70
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Default Re: Adam Vinatieri a Colt

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thanks again for the kinds words guys. sometimes im wondering "why am i so down?" then i have to remind myself - oh yeah, you're Mom died?? I still havent cried.
I suspect once the move settles down and i have some time and space it will sink in.

as for the topic...... Im for bringing Edinger in to replace Vinatieri. And im wondering about Eric Moulds as a complement to Branch.
Mould woulds be a nice pick up if he is willing to take a discount to play for a contender.

The same applies to Edinger - he might be nice short term solution until we can pick someone up through the draft - maybe with one of those multiple comp picks we have this year.

Maybe Bethel Johnson wil respond well to moving up the depth chart - we all know this guys has speed to burn its about time his route running and consistency matured also.

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The Patriots didn't bother with swagger to start this NFL season; they went straight to defiant. Either you're one of them or you're about to get crushed.
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