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Old 12-01-2010, 04:55 PM   #61
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Default Re: Terry Bradshaw: Top 10 QBs under 30

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Out of the running for 1st? I never said he couldn't make it. Who knows? At this point, he's not #1 (and he never was) but if he could make it, that'd be great for him, the Steelers ........... and us.

And if he doesn't and stays at his current ranking, there's nothing wrong with being a top 5 QB in the League. I know at least 27 guys who would like to be in his shoes.

By the way, how many top ranked players the Steelers have? Polamalu is one and I don't see another. I'd say we have several top 5 but only one #1. That's already pretty impressive, no?
The question is who is the top under-30 QB, not who's greater than Montana, Luckman or Unitas. I'd say Ben is right up there.

Rivers is ranked above him on Bradshaw's list, but I'm looking at his playoff games, and it's like he's a Romo-clone. Last year, one-and-out, 1 TD against two interceptions. 2008, they won against Indy despite him (0 TDs, 1 INT) before losing to us (he did have a good game, but couldn't make it happen.) In 2007, he beat the Titans with a rather sloppy game (1 TD against an INT and a fumble lost) and had a great game against Indy, only to stink up the joint against the Patriots. 2006: another one-and-out stinker against New England (0 TDs, 1 INT).

And yet it is Romo who has the reputation as a big game choker, and not Rivers. Pretty much just because he can beat the Colts in his sleep. I'd take Ben over Rivers, for sure.
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Old 12-01-2010, 04:55 PM   #62
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Default Re: Terry Bradshaw: Top 10 QBs under 30

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Originally Posted by plenewken View Post
Out of the running for 1st? I never said he couldn't make it. Who knows? At this point, he's not #1 (and he never was) but if he could make it, that'd be great for him, the Steelers ........... and us.

And if he doesn't and stays at his current ranking, there's nothing wrong with being a top 5 QB in the League. I know at least 27 guys who would like to be in his shoes.

By the way, how many top ranked players the Steelers have? Polamalu is one and I don't see another. I'd say we have several top 5 but only one #1. That's already pretty impressive, no?
Under 30? I think we have at least 6 players in the top 5 at there positions!
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Old 12-01-2010, 07:12 PM   #63
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Default Re: Terry Bradshaw: Top 10 QBs under 30

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Under 30? I think we have at least 6 players in the top 5 at there positions!
I was talking about Ben as QB in the NFL today, under and over 30 combined. I don't care if they're 28 or 33.
As for the other positions, I'd say Polamalu, Miller, Harrison, Woodley and Hampton
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Old 12-01-2010, 09:53 PM   #64
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Default Re: Terry Bradshaw: Top 10 QBs under 30

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It was made pretty clear that Super Bowl wins was just one stat among many, albeit a pretty important one.
I wasn't talking to you when I said that. You maybe considering other factors, but not the guy I said to.

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And again, it's ridiculous to bring those names into the discussion. In what meaningful listing are any of them top-five or top-ten?
I was illustrating a point - explaining why super bowls aren't the only thing that mattered - not that you said that, but the other guy.

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I have to say, it seems pretty clear to me that it is in fact you who is obsessed with just one stat over all others: sacks. Everyone else might indeed be inflating the SB wins, but we're looking at Ben's entire body of work as well. For you, he takes too many sacks and the discussion is over. It's just weird.
I have been discussing why I don't think Ben should be 2nd, which everyone else around here seems to be legit. In that case, the main reason I feel that way is because he takes to many sacks - so that's why I keep bringing it up. I'm not obsessed with that stat by any means.

I also think Ben's winning percentage and Super Bowls has more to do with the team he got drafted by than Ben himself. It's not like he was even a great leader during that time, which is well documented by former players

I still think Ben is good, though - don't get me wrong.

If, hypothetically he were ranked 10th like Eli Manning, being that I think he was slighted, I would join the choir and mention his clutch performances, many comebacks and elusiveness.

It's all relative. Considering his whole body of work, I would rank him probably 4th or 5th, depending on my mood. Not too shabby.

Mark Sanchez, Joe Flacco, and Sam Bradford aren't far behind, and may end up being better than Ben when it's all said and done.

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Rivers is ranked above him on Bradshaw's list, but I'm looking at his playoff games, and it's like he's a Romo-clone. Last year, one-and-out, 1 TD against two interceptions. 2008, they won against Indy despite him (0 TDs, 1 INT) before losing to us (he did have a good game, but couldn't make it happen.) In 2007, he beat the Titans with a rather sloppy game (1 TD against an INT and a fumble lost) and had a great game against Indy, only to stink up the joint against the Patriots. 2006: another one-and-out stinker against New England (0 TDs, 1 INT).
Ben had some bad games along the way, as well. He performed absolutely terrible in Super Bowl XL, and if it hadn't been for some fortunate penalties in that game, we would probably be discussing how bad Ben choked.

He performed admirably in the playoffs leading up to SB XL, but had it not been for a choke by one Mike Vanderjagt in the divisional round, his great performance still would not have been enough. Goes to show you, sometimes the difference between winning and loses amounts to luck (Miami or Buffalo ring a bell?).

Overall, other than his rookie year, SB XL, and the Wild Card game against Jacksonville in 2007, Ben has a decent playoff record. He helps his team win.

Philip Rivers also has had a decent playoff record. He's had a few bad performances (, just like Ben) - 1 coming against the 18-1 Patriots, the greatest team not to win the Super Bowl. The main difference between Roethlisberger and Rivers that people notice in my opinion, is that the Steeler's won while the Charger's lost.

Both players are young. Rivers is in his 5th year as a starter, and he's played in a grad total of 7 playoff games. I don't think that is quite enough to make the judgment that he's not a playoff quarterback. It took Peyton quite a while before he succeeded in the playoff's as well.

From what I've seen of Rivers, he doesn't appear to be a choker. He's lead big comebacks in the fourth quarter - huge one against the Chiefs in 2008.

Rivers is more accurate, has a stronger arm, throws a better deep ball, and seems better at reading defenses than Ben. No doubt, Roethlisberger seems to have some sort of exciting Houdini magic where managing to turn a dismal situation into a glorious one. He'll have you going from "No, No, No!" to "Yes, Yes, Yes!" in the blink of an eye. I would definitely take him over Rivers in a game of back yard football. In Arians terrible offense, unorganized backyard balling may be better in the first place so Ben is probably a better fit for the Steelers right now (until Arians is fired). But over all in the NFL, Rivers is the better quarterback.

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Old 12-02-2010, 12:22 AM   #65
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Default Re: Terry Bradshaw: Top 10 QBs under 30

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Rivers is more accurate, has a stronger arm, throws a better deep ball, and seems better at reading defenses than Ben. No doubt, Roethlisberger seems to have some sort of exciting Houdini magic where managing to turn a dismal situation into a glorious one. He'll have you going from "No, No, No!" to "Yes, Yes, Yes!" in the blink of an eye. I would definitely take him over Rivers in a game of back yard football. In Arians terrible offense, unorganized backyard balling may be better in the first place so Ben is probably a better fit for the Steelers right now (until Arians is fired). But over all in the NFL, Rivers is the better quarterback.
Rivers is indeed slightly more accurate, statistically-speaking. I'm not sure that's what you're talking about though. I get the impression you mean hitting the receiver between the numbers as opposed to just getting him the ball, which is neither here nor there for me.

I disagree about who has the stronger arm; I've seen Ben throw some perfect long bombs while backpedaling and falling over with two guys draped on him... throws with zero body weight behind them, only arm, and they somehow went the distance anyhow. That's strong. Rivers' bombs do have a nice, pretty spiral to them, that's for sure. But these are all stylistic questions, and I don't think that matters in the end.
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Old 12-03-2010, 04:24 PM   #66
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Default Re: Terry Bradshaw: Top 10 QBs under 30

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Very good point. Plunkett wasn't bad, by the way. And we're getting a little ahead of ourselves calling Brady and Ben Hall-of-Famers, likely as it seems.
Ben is still working on it though he's definitely on track; about 3 more seasons and he'll own every Steelers career passing record. He already has every major single game and single season record.

Just for fun, here's how far away Ben is from each major Steelers passing record:
362 completions
1,270 attempts
6,862 yards
73 touchdowns

Also, he already has all of the career "rate" records...yards per attempt, passer rating, completion percentage, etc.

....and Brady is a lock to be a first ballot HOFer. I don't see any debate here.
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Old 12-03-2010, 04:39 PM   #67
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Default Re: Terry Bradshaw: Top 10 QBs under 30

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I was talking about Ben as QB in the NFL today, under and over 30 combined. I don't care if they're 28 or 33.
As for the other positions, I'd say Polamalu, Miller, Harrison, Woodley and Hampton
No Hines!!! Shame shame
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Old 12-03-2010, 11:57 PM   #68
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Default Re: Terry Bradshaw: Top 10 QBs under 30

Are you people really suprised that Bradshaw put Ben at number 2? Knowing TB's very public animosity towards Ben and the Steelers in general, I'm surprised he mentioned Ben at all!
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