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Old 12-23-2010, 06:14 PM   #131
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Default Re: Is Ben an elite qb or a very good qb?

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Big Ben really is like the better version of John Elway, and people still consider Elway one of the best... (people remember johns come back magic but they often forget all of his losses and all the times he couldn't comeback to win the game)

Ben is not a Peyton Manning or Tom Brady, he's always banged up, the ball comes out floppy, he fumbles a lot when he tries to keep the play alive, but thats how he wins games. Ben may have missed 4 games, but how many interceptions has he thrown this year? Why is his QB rating so high? Why are we blaming him for recievers drops? Ben is not a perfect quarterback, he doesn't have the perfect drop back, he has a slow release, but he wins games and takes care of the football, and thats what matters in the end.
I think you're right on the money!

I think Ben is best compared to Elway in almost all aspects of his game. In fact, in SB XLIII when we were down by 3 and 90 yards away with a little over two minutes to go, I remember thinking about "The Drive" when Elway moved the Broncos 98 yards (?) against Cleveland to win and it was said that when he first entered the huddle, he told his guys, "We've got them right where we want them".

I actually thought that to myself right after we got the holding penalty on the first play of that drive and I still get a chuckle when I think about that.

Ben will likely never match "stats" with guys like Brady and Manning but he sure knows how to serve up some truly memorable performances!
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Old 12-24-2010, 12:39 AM   #132
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Default Re: Is Ben an elite qb or a very good qb?

In the world of QB's today, Ben is like an Abrams tank, with a very potent canon sometimes.
Trouble is, he sometimes moves like a tank, too long in the pocket, hold ball sometimes too long. His accuracy could be improved too,...
But basically, ya I agree, with the Elway-comparison posts here, that is probably the accurate description of Ben.
He is potentially a good->great QB, but not "Elite". we all know he can stink too. :) he can also be a bit of a "drama-queen" -But I think he has grown out of that "Big Ben" syndrome, and into somethin' better !

He is definitely NOT a Brady, or Montana, or Manning...., he's more like an Elway, and Ben is obviously a bruiser, ha can take heavy hits -which also makes him more like a Bradshaw too in other ways.

He is actually the PERFECT QB for the STEELERS. <- (aka a "TEAM" member).
The Steelers would never want an "Elite" QB, I don't think the team, or the fans would want, or even accept the drama of an "elite" QB. It's not their style.
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Old 12-24-2010, 12:57 AM   #133
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Default Re: Is Ben an elite qb or a very good qb?

Tonights win changes nothing, he's not elite. He did have the best (pure qb play) I've seen from him with the quick read to Wallace. I give him total props on that play, do that consistently,he'll be elite.
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Old 12-24-2010, 01:03 AM   #134
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Default Re: Is Ben an elite qb or a very good qb?

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Tonights win changes nothing, he's not elite. He did have the best (pure qb play) I've seen from him with the quick read to Wallace. I give him total props on that play, do that consistently,he'll be elite.
considering his win loss percentage is third behind the two top QB's ever I would say his record is elite. But some will still say he is a game manager and the Steelers win with D. Can't say that about SB win against Cardinals though. Ben is getting more consistent and throwing a lot less pics, I think if he keeps it up he should be considered elite.
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Old 12-24-2010, 01:17 AM   #135
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Default Re: Is Ben an elite qb or a very good qb?

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considering his win loss percentage is third behind the two top QB's ever I would say his record is elite. But some will still say he is a game manager and the Steelers win with D. Can't say that about SB win against Cardinals though. Ben is getting more consistent and throwing a lot less pics, I think if he keeps it up he should be considered elite.
Imo, Stats are only a part of the discussion. There is no stat for ben going schoolyard and extending plays, which he is one of the best ever, to offset his sack record that gets attributed to the oline. Stats don't tell the whole story.

Elite qb skills, like quick decisions and accuracy, are lacking in bens game.
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Old 12-24-2010, 02:27 AM   #136
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Default Re: Is Ben an elite qb or a very good qb?

4 more wins this year, and Big Ben would become a first ballet hall of famer.
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Old 12-24-2010, 03:27 AM   #137
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Default Re: Is Ben an elite qb or a very good qb?

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Ben has had as good receivers and TEs as anyone else since he's been playing. Ward and Holmes were both SB MVP.

Dallas Clark? Injured reserve.

Welker? He's ranked #22 WR this year, Wayne is #3 and Wallace is #6. Wallace has more TDs than Welker and Wayne.

Yeah Sweed dropped too many passes but don't tell me the number of passes he dropped dramatically impacted Ben's percentage. Sweed didn't play in SB XL where Ben could barely complete 1/3 of his attempts. The most accurate and decisive pass in this SB came from Randle El. Sad but true.

You guys crack me up with your excuses for Ben. What's next? You're gonna tell me it's the receiver's fault if he doesn't catch a Hail Mary? LOL

I strongly believe that Manning contributes more to Reggie Wayne's success than Wayne to Manning's . Same for Brady with Welker. Same for Brees with Colston. The way I see it here, Holmes, Ward and Wallace did more for Ben's numbers than Ben for theirs.

Brady, Manning and Brees have been Superbowl MVP, not Ben.

Next season, with a reinforced and healthy OL, I'd like to see Ben finish the season with 30 TDs, 15 INT max and 25 sacks max. We'll see if it happens.

Uhhh yeah. . . you clearly took what I said out of context. Funny how you replied to that post of mine, and not the one that has him top 15 all-time in just about every major statistical category if he plays another few years. Being a contrarian doesn't make you right, it makes you a crybaby or someone bored who's looking for an argument.

Ward = Moss huh? Holmes = Harrison? Lol. . . you have no idea what you're talking about. You're a hater. Ben has had talent, as has almost every QB in the league, but he hasn't had the talent around him that the so called "elite" QB's that you've named had. Sorry kid, but no matter how you slice it, he's done more with less than just about anyone in the league. . . and you comparing him to Manning and Brady is retarded, as no one is arguing that he's Manning or Brady. . . . people are and have been that he's just below them, and that's not a bad thing.

Dexter Jackson and Desmond Howard were Super Bowl MVP's, too. I guess Dexter was better than Rod and Howard was better than Irvin then. Good logic.

You guys can hate him all the way to his HoF speech, I don't care. The bottom line is he's one of the most efficient and accurate QB's of all time who masks holes in a unique way who hasn't had the luxury of some other "elite" QB's, yet wins just as much as them.


Cry, cry, cry.
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Old 12-24-2010, 06:52 AM   #138
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Default Re: Is Ben an elite qb or a very good qb?

Ben is a great Qb but I don't know were you get that he didn't have any talent around him. He started with Ward and Plex then hah Holmes, Wallace and Miller as well ad Mendenhall, Bettis and Parker in his prime when he was tearing it up. How you can sit there and say Ward, Holmes and Wallace are great players are beyond me. Yes Manning and Brady's WR's may get better stats but that's because of who is throwing them the ball and the offensive game plan.

If you put Ward(in his prime), Wallace or Holmes on the Patriots and let Brady toss 12 passes a game to them they will all be top 5 WR's every single year.


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Uhhh yeah. . . you clearly took what I said out of context. Funny how you replied to that post of mine, and not the one that has him top 15 all-time in just about every major statistical category if he plays another few years. Being a contrarian doesn't make you right, it makes you a crybaby or someone bored who's looking for an argument.

Ward = Moss huh? Holmes = Harrison? Lol. . . you have no idea what you're talking about. You're a hater. Ben has had talent, as has almost every QB in the league, but he hasn't had the talent around him that the so called "elite" QB's that you've named had. Sorry kid, but no matter how you slice it, he's done more with less than just about anyone in the league. . . and you comparing him to Manning and Brady is retarded, as no one is arguing that he's Manning or Brady. . . . people are and have been that he's just below them, and that's not a bad thing.

Dexter Jackson and Desmond Howard were Super Bowl MVP's, too. I guess Dexter was better than Rod and Howard was better than Irvin then. Good logic.

You guys can hate him all the way to his HoF speech, I don't care. The bottom line is he's one of the most efficient and accurate QB's of all time who masks holes in a unique way who hasn't had the luxury of some other "elite" QB's, yet wins just as much as them.


Cry, cry, cry.
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Old 12-24-2010, 09:18 AM   #139
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Default Re: Is Ben an elite qb or a very good qb?

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Originally Posted by dez09231 View Post
Uhhh yeah. . . you clearly took what I said out of context. Funny how you replied to that post of mine, and not the one that has him top 15 all-time in just about every major statistical category if he plays another few years. Being a contrarian doesn't make you right, it makes you a crybaby or someone bored who's looking for an argument.

Ward = Moss huh? Holmes = Harrison? Lol. . . you have no idea what you're talking about. You're a hater. Ben has had talent, as has almost every QB in the league, but he hasn't had the talent around him that the so called "elite" QB's that you've named had. Sorry kid, but no matter how you slice it, he's done more with less than just about anyone in the league. . . and you comparing him to Manning and Brady is retarded, as no one is arguing that he's Manning or Brady. . . . people are and have been that he's just below them, and that's not a bad thing.

Dexter Jackson and Desmond Howard were Super Bowl MVP's, too. I guess Dexter was better than Rod and Howard was better than Irvin then. Good logic.

You guys can hate him all the way to his HoF speech, I don't care. The bottom line is he's one of the most efficient and accurate QB's of all time who masks holes in a unique way who hasn't had the luxury of some other "elite" QB's, yet wins just as much as them.


Cry, cry, cry.
Nobody's crying here dude, we're all big boys.
YOU mentioned Welker and Wayne, not me. After I proved you wrong, you come back with Moss and Harrison.
Ben has had very good talent around him since day 1. Ben also has had more defensive talent around him than Brady and Manning ever had, and he can thank the D for a big part of his win % and at least 1 of his SB rings.
You can slice it anyway you want, there hasn't been a single year since Ben plays that the offense has ranked higher than the defense. It's not completely his fault but he's not completely innocent either.
Ben's one of the most accurate QBs of all time?!? Are you serious?
Oh and thanks for "kid". My grand kids will love it.

By the way, you said it yourself, Ben's below Brady and Manning so it means that if they're all elite, Ben's Tier 2 and they're Tier 1 That's my opinion too.

Happy holidays.
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Old 12-24-2010, 06:54 PM   #140
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Default Re: Is Ben an elite qb or a very good qb?

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Nobody's crying here dude, we're all big boys.
YOU mentioned Welker and Wayne, not me. After I proved you wrong, you come back with Moss and Harrison.
Ben has had very good talent around him since day 1. Ben also has had more defensive talent around him than Brady and Manning ever had, and he can thank the D for a big part of his win % and at least 1 of his SB rings.
You can slice it anyway you want, there hasn't been a single year since Ben plays that the offense has ranked higher than the defense. It's not completely his fault but he's not completely innocent either.
Ben's one of the most accurate QBs of all time?!? Are you serious?
Oh and thanks for "kid". My grand kids will love it.

By the way, you said it yourself, Ben's below Brady and Manning so it means that if they're all elite, Ben's Tier 2 and they're Tier 1 That's my opinion too.

Happy holidays.
Welker is better than Mike. So is Wayne.



"Roethlisberger has been one of the most efficient passers in NFL history. He currently ranks 10th all-time in NFL passer rating (92.1), 6th in yards per attempt (8.00), and 12th in completion percentage (63.03%) among quarterbacks with a minimum of 1500 career attempts. He has the 4th highest career winning percentage (.701) as a starter in the regular season among quarterbacks with a minimum of 90 starts."


Yes. . . he is one of the most accurate QB's of ALL TIME.


If we had Tom Brady you older people would still be talking about how he'll never be Bradshaw. : /
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