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Old 04-15-2006, 03:18 AM   #1
Livinginthe past
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Default Bush, Peru and 'Democracy'

Peruvians have followed the recent trend in national elections, from Europe to Palestine, by voting en masse for the candidate most hostile to George Bush.

The election in Peru has followed a similar pattern. Ollanta Humala has won widespread support by promising to redistribute wealth towards the poor - George W. Bush responded to this by threatening to withdraw aid if Humala won, and the National Endowment of Democracy (which was founded by another great American President Ronald Reagan), began funding Humala's opponents.

http://www.antiwar.com/paul/paul79.html

The NED is an organisation that exists allegedly to encourage the spread Democracy across the world.

How would Americans feel if the Chinese arrived with millions of dollars to support certain candidates deemed friendly to China? Would this be viewed as a democratic development?

At a recent convention Bush recently said, "There are sceptics who say we can't expect to bring about democracy in every region of the world. They say some countries aren't suited to it. I say we should have more faith in the people"

He dismissed those cynics as 'unrealistic' - which no doubt will upset older Republicans, because in 1953 America invaded Guatemala, overthrowing the elected President because 'democracy in this country is unrealistic' - its funny how 53 years can revalidate the concept of a free election.

Bush also boasted that one consequence of American policy was "in the 1970's democracy began to spread through Latin America".

In Chile, for example, where an election was won by a radical President, until he was overthrown by a CIA-backed coup and replaced by a General.

It is clear that the USA supports a democratic system known as 'proportional assasination' - if you dont like they guy with the most votes - kill him.

In yet another example of American democracy, Bush has threatened to withdraw aid from Bolivia becasue they voted the wrong guy into office, and in Venezuela there have been three attempts to overthrow the anti-Bush President - Chavez.

They have also spent $6million funding parties to oppose Chavez - im sure you people can think of much better places this money could be spent within the boundaries of your own country.

America acts as if its allowing the rest of the world to try out Democracy as a privilege, in a way a teacher might go out of the room for a while saying "Im trusting you to get on with your own work".

But if a country makes the awful mistake of electing the 'wrong person', America comes storming back into the room screaming "Is this how you repay my faith in you? I trusted you to be responsible, and you vote for a maniac with a vaguely socialist approach to farming and the economy! Okay you asked for it - we are going back to life under my friend 'the General'"

Im sure I am not the only one who see's the awful irony in winners of elections, in predominantly South American countries, being labelled as 'undemocratic' - if wasn't so sad it would be funny.

You can't even suggest that America is trying to do the right thing, but in a naive fashion - one look at Mr Bush's allies in Uzbekistan and Pakistan tells a very different story.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_Karimov

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pervez_Musharaf

Or maybe there is a different type of organisation he promotes in those countries, the National Endowment for Dictatorship where he says " there are sceptics who say we can't expect to bring about dictatorship in every region of the world. They say that some countries aren't suited to it. I say we should have more faith in the Generals"

Before I get any replies to this thread - I would like to state again that I am not in any way anti-American, but I am strongly opposed to the American government and its continuous, hypocritical meddling in the affairs of other sovereign nations.

Thanks

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Old 04-15-2006, 08:56 AM   #2
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Default Re: Bush, Peru and 'Democracy'

Thye whole thing is scary. This world is really F%$^%* up right now. All we need to do is keep pissing off all, all these little countries, that done give a crap about anything or anybody. We may wont to consider bringing as many soldiers home as possible, and protecting our own country.
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Old 04-15-2006, 09:54 AM   #3
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Default Re: Bush, Peru and 'Democracy'

i guess we feel we have earned the right to meddle after we kicked ass in so many wars, and because we hand out so much foreign aid, and bail out certain countries in trouble.

imagine how bad we would be with a leader such as hitler, stalin, or hussein.
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Old 04-15-2006, 09:56 AM   #4
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Default Re: Bush, Peru and 'Democracy'

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Originally Posted by tony hipchest
imagine how bad we would be with a leader such as hitler, stalin, or hussein.
The amusing part, some idiots are comparing Bush to all three of those dictators.
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Old 04-15-2006, 10:04 AM   #5
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Default Re: Bush, Peru and 'Democracy'

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Originally Posted by 83-Steelers-43
The amusing part, some idiots are comparing Bush to all three of those dictators.
and even if he were an americain leader is one of the easiest to "overthrow". 4 years and an election and hes gone! as it stands hes gone in 2 years. no hostile overthrow or rebellion needed.
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Old 04-15-2006, 10:57 AM   #6
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Default Re: Bush, Peru and 'Democracy'

I think we have been down the route about 'foreign aid' and what it represents.

Despite what some may believe it is not a means of keeping poor people alive, because the States can't even ensure that its own people enjoy that privilege.

Its basically a bargaining tool to try and ensure that the most Bush-friendly government gets to power and remains there.

Stalin, Hussein and Hitler are poor comparisons for sure.

But I think Hitler tried to achieve what Bush is attempting to achieve - the only difference is the amount of stealth used to get to this goal.

The fact that Bush can be said to be 'better' than any of the 3 names mentioned is a better indictment of his crimes than anything I have said.

For the record, The British Empire has won many more battles than the Americans have - and I certainly dont think that gives us any right to dictate to other countries on how to run their affairs or elect their leaders.

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The Patriots didn't bother with swagger to start this NFL season; they went straight to defiant. Either you're one of them or you're about to get crushed.
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Old 04-15-2006, 11:13 AM   #7
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Default Re: Bush, Peru and 'Democracy'

W's to do list:

Take over the Democratic party by force in order to gain power (check)

Murder 8 million Jews (check)

Conquer half of Europe (check)

Establish a dictatorship (check)

Murder anybody that disagrees with his decisions (check)

lol, some people. I'll stick by my above comments. Complete idiots.

While I will not hesitate to call out W on poor decisions, comparing him to Hitler, Stalin and Hussein is laughable and pathetic. People who believe that are the type of people who are not even worth holding a debate with.
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Old 04-15-2006, 11:18 AM   #8
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Default Re: Bush, Peru and 'Democracy'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Livinginthe past

For the record, The British Empire has won many more battles than the Americans have - and I certainly dont think that gives us any right to dictate to other countries on how to run their affairs or elect their leaders.

NM
unfortunately they lost probably one of their most important battles. the battle for america. the usa (which isnt even 300 years old) has thrust itself into the position of being the world super power it is today.

i see you are displeased about america, but really what are you, england, or any other country gonna do about it?

the big, bad, mean, bully of the world is now chinas problem. and when they come knocking on our doorstep, i really dont expect any of our "allies" to step to our aid. what county out there would be willing to take on a titan such as china? what country would send a million troops and lose 100,000 of them on our behalf? in the meantime i guess we will just keep on kicking ass and taking names later. for better or for worse.

looking at the worlds population, i had about a 1 in 25 chance of being born an american. i consider myself lucky.
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Old 04-15-2006, 11:29 AM   #9
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Default Re: Bush, Peru and 'Democracy'

Quote:
Originally Posted by tony hipchest
unfortunately they lost probably one of their most important battles. the battle for america. the usa (which isnt even 300 years old) has thrust itself into the position of being the world super power it is today.

i see you are displeased about america, but really what are you, england, or any other country gonna do about it?

the big, bad, mean, bully of the world is now chinas problem. and when they come knocking on our doorstep, i really dont expect any of our "allies" to step to our aid. what county out there would be willing to take on a titan such as china? what country would send a million troops and lose 100,000 of them on our behalf? in the meantime i guess we will just keep on kicking ass and taking names later. for better or for worse.

looking at the worlds population, i had about a 1 in 25 chance of being born an american. i consider myself lucky.
Well thats fine Tony.

I can see that, in the absense of any sort of adult argument, you are going to reduce this to a WWF commentary.

We all find our own levels on these matters.

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The Patriots didn't bother with swagger to start this NFL season; they went straight to defiant. Either you're one of them or you're about to get crushed.
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Old 04-15-2006, 11:40 AM   #10
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Default Re: Bush, Peru and 'Democracy'

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Originally Posted by Livinginthe past
Well thats fine Tony.

I can see that, in the absense of any sort of adult argument, you are going to reduce this to a WWF commentary.

We all find our own levels on these matters.

NM
seriously, you pointed out a problem, (which is easy to do) but i saw no solution in your commentary. was the point? just to say america sucks? now that the problem is out there on the table, what do you suggest we, as inhabitants of the world, do to solve it? the bed has been made and now we have to lie in it. runaway train....the cats out of the bag...... and all those other cliches. i dont see how you think you or any other country can force a laisse faire (sp) world policy on america now.

if you want to have a serious argument, instead of just ranting, throw out some solutions to discuss, otherwise your initial post, while good, is hollow.
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