Time to talk about the real Big Ben.

[cloppbeast]

Originally Posted by Wallace108

This thread is ridiculous. Give Ben a line that can protect him and an OC that understands situational playcalling and Ben's numbers greatly improve.

Gerry Dulac reports (I read it here) that "Roethlisberger has been given almost total command of the offense under Arians and has developed a close personal relationship with him and his family."

I guess you can blame Arians for giving control of the offense to Ben, but Ben deserves some of the blame for the play-calls as well, since he's the one in control. Maybe we need another OC who will take control back from Ben.

As far as the o-line is concerned, Ben's wasn't worse than Manning's this year. Even with a poor offensive line, Peyton still only took 16 sacks this season. Manning makes his o-line look good by getting rid of the ball; Ben makes his o-line look bad by holding onto the ball.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the Steelers have the greatest offensive line. There are times when Ben gets sacked through no fault of his own. For the most part he gets sacked because he holds onto the ball too long.

Anyway, Ben is a good QB, but he's not the greatest. He uses his physical tools to his advantage and he gets the job done with the help of a great defense. He's not to the caliber of the greats, (I'd say he's about 5th best in the league now) despite the fact that he played on 2 Super Bowl winning teams. But he's definitely good.

[kirklandrules]

Originally Posted by cloppbeast

Anyway, Ben is a good QB, but he's not the greatest. He uses his physical tools to his advantage and he gets the job done with the help of a great defense. He's not to the caliber of the greats, (I'd say he's about 5th best in the league now) despite the fact that he played on 2 Super Bowl winning teams. But he's definitely good.

I'd say he was the second best QB this year. He lost to Rogers in the SB. I don't care about stats and all that bull. I only care about results ... and Ben led the team to the SB where they lost to the Rogers led Pack. Manning was a first round loser this year. Oh, by the way, don't forget that Ben takes responsibility for losses.If you remember when the Steelers went to Indy and beat the Colts on their way to the SB a few years ago, Manning threw his O-line under the bus after the game when he stated "We had some protection problems". What a d-bag! I've thought nothing good about the guy since then.

[cloppbeast]

Originally Posted by kirklandrules

I'd say he was the second best QB this year. He lost to Rogers in the SB. I don't care about stats and all that bull. I only care about results ... and Ben led the team to the SB where they lost to the Rogers led Pack. Manning was a first round loser this year.

I don't agree with the premise. The team that wins doesn't necessarily have the best quarterback.

The Steelers were better than the Colts, but Ben isn't better than Manning.

Originally Posted by kirklandrules

Oh, by the way, don't forget that Ben takes responsibility for losses.If you remember when the Steelers went to Indy and beat the Colts on their way to the SB a few years ago, Manning threw his O-line under the bus after the game when he stated "We had some protection problems". What a d-bag! I've thought nothing good about the guy since then.

I give credit to Ben for taking responsibility for the loss.

As far as Manning is concerned, well you aren't considering the whole picture. He was asked a specific question regarding the pass protection against the Steelers. His answer was, "We had some protection problems" - that was just stating the obvious. He did not call out anybody with that statment. He never even said who's fault it was.

[kirklandrules]

Originally Posted by cloppbeast

I don't agree with the premise. The team that wins doesn't necessarily have the best quarterback.

I was expecting a Trent Dilfer reference here.

Originally Posted by cloppbeast

The Steelers were better than the Colts, but Ben isn't better than Manning.

And that's where opinions lead to disagreement. I would take Ben over Manning because Ben won't tinkle his pants when he gets hit. How many times did we see Manning fall down to avoid contact this year. Hell, he fell down on the 3 yard line instead of getting tackled from behind on a TD run.

Originally Posted by cloppbeast

I give credit to Ben for taking responsibility for the loss.

As far as Manning is concerned, well you aren't considering the whole picture. He was asked a specific question regarding the pass protection against the Steelers. His answer was, "We had some protection problems" - that was just stating the obvious. He did not call out anybody with that statment. He never even said who's fault it was.

You might want to double check his response because he very clearly threw his line under the bus with his comment. The only reason it didn't get max exposure is because his kicker made headlines throwing Manning under the bus. You can find plenty of links by googling it, but thought this one was a funny way to remember what an ass he was ...
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2...e=gallo/060116

[zulater]

Originally Posted by cloppbeast

Gerry Dulac reports (I read it here) that "Roethlisberger has been given almost total command of the offense under Arians and has developed a close personal relationship with him and his family."

I guess you can blame Arians for giving control of the offense to Ben, but Ben deserves some of the blame for the play-calls as well, since he's the one in control. Maybe we need another OC who will take control back from Ben.

As far as the o-line is concerned, Ben's wasn't worse than Manning's this year. Even with a poor offensive line, Peyton still only took 16 sacks this season. Manning makes his o-line look good by getting rid of the ball; Ben makes his o-line look bad by holding onto the ball.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the Steelers have the greatest offensive line. There are times when Ben gets sacked through no fault of his own. For the most part he gets sacked because he holds onto the ball too long.

Anyway, Ben is a good QB, but he's not the greatest. He uses his physical tools to his advantage and he gets the job done with the help of a great defense. He's not to the caliber of the greats, (I'd say he's about 5th best in the league now) despite the fact that he played on 2 Super Bowl winning teams. But he's definitely good.

Who's to say you need the greatest qb to win the Super Bowl anyway, perhaps a guy like Ben, someone a notch below the greats is easiar to win with? Maybe the reason quartbacks like Fouts, Favre, and Marino never won a Super bowl is because they become too much the focal point of the team? I know Marino never had a great back, but maybe it was because he was too impatient to feed the running game to actually develop a back? So put Ben in the category with Phil Simms, or Len Dawson if you want. It seems to work regardless.

[Danny136200]

Originally Posted by Steelerz4Life

Again, I hate the Patriots, but Big Ben is not even worthy of being mentioned in the same sentence as Tom Brady. Like it or not, Brady is one of the all time greats, as where Ben is an above average QB at best who was carried to 2 Super Bowls. Like it or not, the Patriots won BECAUSE of Brady. Like it or not, the Steelers won 2 of their Super Bowl IN SPITE of Ben, not BECAUSE of Ben. It is just that simple.

You know, something funny happened this decade. When the Patriots had a great D, they won super bowls. When all of their starts either retired or left via free agency, they were still a pretty good regular season team, but they can never get it done in the playoffs. Why? because Defense wins championships.
Moron.

[Atlanta Dan]

Originally Posted by cloppbeast

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the Steelers have the greatest offensive line. There are times when Ben gets sacked through no fault of his own. For the most part he gets sacked because he holds onto the ball too long.

Anyway, Ben is a good QB, but he's not the greatest. He uses his physical tools to his advantage and he gets the job done with the help of a great defense. He's not to the caliber of the greats, (I'd say he's about 5th best in the league now) despite the fact that he played on 2 Super Bowl winning teams. But he's definitely good.

Sounds like you are describing Bradshaw - he had an exemplary 1978 but otherwise was never at the top of the heap with regard to passing stats - Staubach was consistently rated above him throughout the decade, while within the AFC Stabler and Anderson had better stats through the mid-70s while Bert Jones and Fouts had better reps as the decade closed -

If stats were what counted Ken Anderson and Ken Stabler would be in Canton rather than Bradshaw - assuming getting to Canton is the definition of great, winning is a major if not the major factor that defines the the success of a QB, unless you consider fantasy football to be real football

NYT today makes a pretty compelling case why Roethlisberger is Canton bound

Ben Roethlisberger and the Hall of Fame

http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2...me/?ref=sports

[Velvet Elvis]

Originally Posted by zulater

Who's to say you need the greatest qb to win the Super Bowl anyway, perhaps a guy like Ben, someone a notch below the greats is easiar to win with? Maybe the reason quartbacks like Fouts, Favre, and Marino never won a Super bowl is because they become too much the focal point of the team? I know Marino never had a great back, but maybe it was because he was too impatient to feed the running game to actually develop a back? So put Ben in the category with Phil Simms, or Len Dawson if you want. It seems to work regardless.

For your information, Farve has won a Super Bowl.

[pete74]

Originally Posted by zulater

Who's to say you need the greatest qb to win the Super Bowl anyway, perhaps a guy like Ben, someone a notch below the greats is easiar to win with? Maybe the reason quartbacks like Fouts, Favre, and Marino never won a Super bowl is because they become too much the focal point of the team? I know Marino never had a great back, but maybe it was because he was too impatient to feed the running game to actually develop a back? So put Ben in the category with Phil Simms, or Len Dawson if you want. It seems to work regardless.

Favre has a ring

[zulater]

Originally Posted by pete74

Favre has a ring

Oops, yeah, with all those NFC title game interceptions in the last few years I sorta forgot he won one way back when.