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Old 02-09-2011, 12:40 PM   #1
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Default Insider: Steelers erred in testing Packers CB Williams

The following quotes are from NFL scouts, coaches and front-office personnel, speaking on the condition of anonymity.


"I was very surprised that on 4th-and-5 (at the end of the game), the Steelers decided to throw to the guy (that Packers CB) Tramon Williams(notes) was covering. They had one healthy cornerback left to avoid and that is the way they throw? It was a great play by Williams. If I were (Steelers offensive coordinator) Bruce Arians, that would have been the last thing I said avoid throwing No. 38's way. He was hands down the most improved defensive player in the NFL this year."

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"When the Packers lost Charles Woodson(notes) (in the first half of Super Bowl XLV), they knew (Jarrett) Bush could not cover that's why they kept blitzing him."


"If you look at how Sam Shields(notes) played from the time he entered preseason to the end of the year, the improvement was phenomenal. He did not know what to do early on. That's coaching right there. My hat's off to Dom Capers."


"Everyone got all excited about Michael Vick(notes) and there was reason to be excited early but if you look at how he finished the season, you see (that) teams started to figure out that if you make him play quarterback, he is not that good. He's not a great three-step, five-step, read-and-throw-to-the-open-receiver quarterback. And he takes more hits because he does not read it quickly. Look at the Indy game when (Colts MLB Gary) Brackett drills him. If his primary (receiver) is not there and he has to go through the thought process, he holds it for an extra second to second-and-a-half, and in this league, that is the difference between a defender breezing by like they do with Peyton Manning(notes), barely touching him or getting drilled. If I'm Michael Vick, I'm digging up every game that Steve Young played late in his career when he made his transformation, and I'm studying it."


"Losing (C Maurkice) Pouncey was a monumental loss for the Steelers. He made that line go. What do you think the outcome would be in any other profession if you took one of the best around and tried replacing that person with the 50th-best? It's hard to cover that up. (Pouncey) covered up a lot of flaws of the rest of the line. Without him, it made the jobs of Big Ben (Roethlisberger), (Rashard) Mendenhall and the rest of the line a lot harder."


"Watch (James) Jones' and Jordy (Nelson)'s drops I don't think they were dropped because they have bad hands. I think they were surprised at how well (Aaron) Rodgers was threading that needle. He was absolutely just threading it. Even the go-and-fade route to Jordy they were passes that just missed by an inch and what was great about it (Rodgers) puts the ball where only his guys have a chance to catch his misses. His only bad pass was to (Andrew) Quarless up the seam. Not many quarterbacks have the confidence in their arm to look, look and turn, and throw left the way (Rodgers) did on the seven-yard hitch to Jordy. For most (quarterbacks), that would have been seven (points) going the other way."


"The Packers have better defensive personnel (than the Steelers). If you take the secondary, maybe Troy Polamalu(notes) is better than Charles Woodson but they pretty much cancel each other out. If you look at the rest of the secondary, I take Sam Shields, Tramon Williams and Nick Collins(notes) over Ryan Clark(notes), Ike Taylor(notes), (Bryant) McFadden and William Gay(notes) every day of the week. (James) Harrison might be a little better than (Clay) Matthews, but had Desmond Bishop(notes) waited and did not re-sign, he would have been a hot free agent. He was one of the most underrated guys on the field. He hits like thunder why do you think Nick Barnett(notes) is so pissed? I don't think he's getting his job back. I'd take (B.J.) Raji over (Casey) Hampton and (Cullen) Jenkins over (Brett) Keisel. Losing Aaron Smith(notes) really hurt (the Steelers). Ziggy Hood(notes) is so stiff that he cannot rush the passer, and he does not play the run very well outside a very short area."


"Give (Packers GM) Ted Thompson credit for locking up Tramon Williams and Desmond Bishop. He did a great job of evaluating his own. And then you look at the street free agents they bring in Jarrett Bush(notes) and Charlie Peprah(notes). I'm sure it was hard to let Aaron Kampman(notes) go, but he got hurt again, and he was not a fit. Mike McCarthy gets it. They have a president (Mark Murphy) who understands football and a bunch of smart football players. That is what Ted understands. If a guy is dumb, he gets stuck on the bench coaches won't trust him."
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Old 02-09-2011, 02:43 PM   #2
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Default Re: Insider: Steelers erred in testing Packers CB Williams

Quote:
Originally Posted by pete74 View Post

"Losing (C Maurkice) Pouncey was a monumental loss for the Steelers. He made that line go. What do you think the outcome would be in any other profession if you took one of the best around and tried replacing that person with the 50th-best? It's hard to cover that up. (Pouncey) covered up a lot of flaws of the rest of the line. Without him, it made the jobs of Big Ben (Roethlisberger), (Rashard) Mendenhall and the rest of the line a lot harder.".
Sounds like this guy had his script writtten before the game - Kemo was the one who got blown up on the pressure up the middle that contributed to the pick 6, pass protection held up, and the Steelers ran the ball until Arians quit calling running plays. Pouncey is great but Legursky answered the call.


Quote:
"Watch (James) Jones' and Jordy (Nelson)'s drops I don't think they were dropped because they have bad hands. I think they were surprised at how well (Aaron) Rodgers was threading that needle. .
Aikman said on Jones drops it had been a problem all year - news to me that NFL WRs are excused for drops because they are surprised the throw is so good

Quote:
The Packers have better defensive personnel (than the Steelers).
Then Arians and LeBeau must both be great coaches (guess which one I think is not) - With everyone giving the Packers the clear edge on offense for every component other than RB going into the game, the Steelers offense outscored the Packers offense, led in time of possession, had more total yards, and gave up fewer sacks despite the fact Roethlisberger has a hsitory of being sacked. Packers get the edge in the secondary without a healthy Troy, but that is the only edge I saw.
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Old 02-09-2011, 03:32 PM   #3
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Default Re: Insider: Steelers erred in testing Packers CB Williams

they scored more td's and thats what matters. time of possesion means nothing if you lose
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Old 02-09-2011, 03:40 PM   #4
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Default Re: Insider: Steelers erred in testing Packers CB Williams

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Originally Posted by Atlanta Dan View Post
Then Arians and LeBeau must both be great coaches (guess which one I think is not) - With everyone giving the Packers the clear edge on offense for every component other than RB going into the game, the Steelers offense outscored the Packers offense, led in time of possession, had more total yards, and gave up fewer sacks despite the fact Roethlisberger has a hsitory of being sacked. Packers get the edge in the secondary without a healthy Troy, but that is the only edge I saw.
You aren't serious, are you? You really think your wideouts are better than the Packers? Your quarterback? Packers receivers had 3 TD to 2 for the Steelers. Our #4 receiver had 140 yards and a TD. You were without your #3 receiver for 1/2 the game while we were without our #2 for half the game. Rodgers has over 300 yards, 3 TD and 0 INT to Rothlisburger's 265 yards 2 TD and 2 INT. The Packers were rightfully given the advantage everywhere on offense other than running back. Your tight end was better and your running back was better. That's it. You point to the fact that the Steelers offense outscores the Packer's offense. You don't think if Collins had just picked Ben's pass off we would've got at least 3 points, considering we would've already been in field goal range? Not to mention your offense outscores ours by a whopping 1 point, converting a 2 point conversion, creating that margin.

And we "might" have a better secondary without a healthy Troy? Please. Our numbers 1 and 3 defensive backs were knocked out of the game before you scored your first touchdown. It was 21-3 when Woodson and Shields went down. You couldn't move the ball at all when Woodson was in there because he was HUGE in our run defense. He played like a linebacker for us. Our secondary is MUCH better than yours if both teams are healthy. Our defensive line is better as well, and linebackers are a push.
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Old 02-09-2011, 03:52 PM   #5
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Default Re: Insider: Steelers erred in testing Packers CB Williams

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they scored more td's and thats what matters. time of possesion means nothing if you lose
No kidding - I am not saying Green Bay did not deserve to win

My point was that was not the 74 Steelers or 85 Bears I saw out there on defense for Green Bay, against a middle of the pack offense from Pittsburgh, to support any conclusion the Green Bay's defensiive personnel are superior to Pittsburgh's.

Green Bay has a better offense than Pittsburgh's and the Steelers moved the ball at least as effectively as Green Bay did which leads to the concluion Green Bay's defensive personnel are better
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Old 02-09-2011, 03:56 PM   #6
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Default Re: Insider: Steelers erred in testing Packers CB Williams

GB does have the better secondary but I agree with you in that their defense wasn't shutting the Steelers down in the 2nd half and was also susceptible to the pass. Even in the NFCC game against a 3rd string QB in Chicago, they had some troubles in the 2nd half. They did get the TO's when needed.

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No kidding - I am not saying Green Bay did not deserve to win

My point was that was not the 74 Steelers or 85 Bears I saw out there on defense for Green Bay, against a middle of the pack offense from Pittsburgh, to support any conclusion the Green Bay's defensiive personnel are superior to Pittsburgh's.

Green Bay has a better offense than Pittsburgh's and the Steelers moved the ball at least as effectively as Green Bay did which leads to the concluion Green Bay's defensive personnel are better
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Old 02-09-2011, 03:57 PM   #7
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Default Re: Insider: Steelers erred in testing Packers CB Williams

Quote:
Originally Posted by pete74 View Post
"The Packers have better defensive personnel (than the Steelers). If you take the secondary, maybe Troy Polamalu(notes) is better than Charles Woodson but they pretty much cancel each other out. If you look at the rest of the secondary, I take Sam Shields, Tramon Williams and Nick Collins(notes) over Ryan Clark(notes), Ike Taylor(notes), (Bryant) McFadden and William Gay(notes) every day of the week. (James) Harrison might be a little better than (Clay) Matthews, but had Desmond Bishop(notes) waited and did not re-sign, he would have been a hot free agent. He was one of the most underrated guys on the field. He hits like thunder why do you think Nick Barnett(notes) is so pissed? I don't think he's getting his job back. I'd take (B.J.) Raji over (Casey) Hampton and (Cullen) Jenkins over (Brett) Keisel. Losing Aaron Smith(notes) really hurt (the Steelers). Ziggy Hood(notes) is so stiff that he cannot rush the passer, and he does not play the run very well outside a very short area."
I agree about the secondary, but Raji over Hampton really makes me laugh, the guy gets one pick 6 and he is amazing.

Maybe I'm just paranoid but it sounds like he thinks their LBs are better, too.

lol at Hood not filling Smith's shoes.

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Old 02-09-2011, 04:59 PM   #8
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Default Re: Insider: Steelers erred in testing Packers CB Williams

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You aren't serious, are you? You really think your wideouts are better than the Packers? Your quarterback? Packers receivers had 3 TD to 2 for the Steelers. Our #4 receiver had 140 yards and a TD. You were without your #3 receiver for 1/2 the game while we were without our #2 for half the game. Rodgers has over 300 yards, 3 TD and 0 INT to Rothlisburger's 265 yards 2 TD and 2 INT. The Packers were rightfully given the advantage everywhere on offense other than running back. Your tight end was better and your running back was better. That's it. You point to the fact that the Steelers offense outscores the Packer's offense. You don't think if Collins had just picked Ben's pass off we would've got at least 3 points, considering we would've already been in field goal range? Not to mention your offense outscores ours by a whopping 1 point, converting a 2 point conversion, creating that margin.

And we "might" have a better secondary without a healthy Troy? Please. Our numbers 1 and 3 defensive backs were knocked out of the game before you scored your first touchdown. It was 21-3 when Woodson and Shields went down. You couldn't move the ball at all when Woodson was in there because he was HUGE in our run defense. He played like a linebacker for us. Our secondary is MUCH better than yours if both teams are healthy. Our defensive line is better as well, and linebackers are a push.
Well that was sort of my point - thanks for reading my post so carefully. Green Bay has a much better offense (the only edge I would give the Steelers would be at RB) and the stats did not reflect that. Steelers moved the ball on the ground fairly consistently (there was an article in The New York Times yesterday that I assume you did not read since I doubt you read anything that does not come with a set of crayons) that asked if the Steelers would have won the game if they had not quit trying to run in the third quarter. If the Green Bay front seven personnel were that much better why were the Steelers able to do that without Pouncey and why did Green bay have so much trouble with the run all season?

Believe it or not there was probably no team in the league other than the Steelers I would rather see win the Super Bowl - they are a legendary franchise and most of their fans are great.

Glad you are so happy that 3 days later you are trolling an opposing team's message board looking for respect after your team won it all - some people may have learned to be gracious losers, but have a hard time being gracious winners.

P.S. - consider losing the "we" when you refer to the Packers unless you got fitted for a ring Saturday night with the rest of the team. None of the players or coaches could identify you if you were in a police line-up.
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Old 02-09-2011, 05:46 PM   #9
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Default Re: Insider: Steelers erred in testing Packers CB Williams

i do agree with the Arians comment. One healthy DB and you're throwing it at him. We "forcibly" used Wallace a bit too much IMO. The Packers were out to cover this from play one but yet...Arians continued at him. Another reason for Arians to hit the highway
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