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Old 02-16-2011, 03:45 PM   #1
thumper
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Default So, is Tomlin a liar?

When he first became head coach, there was a story
about the posters in his office. His most prominently-placed
picture was of a power rushing, goal line play
up the middle.

Tomlin said he liked it best because it illustrated what he
thinks football, and Steeler football, is all about.

All that being said, why would he keep an OC who doesn't
even feel the need for a FB? That is totally crap.

Power football is usually accompanied with a FB, and if not,
you usually at least have a FB on the roster if you believe in
power football. So why is Arians still OC?

His philosophies do not mesh with Pgh or Tomlin - or at least
what Tomlin SAYS any how.
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Old 02-16-2011, 03:55 PM   #2
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Default Re: So, is Tomlin a liar?

What the Steelers are doing is trying to fit in the mold of the new NFL without completley going to an air it out attack. The Steelers have a great running game and a workhorse in Mendenhall that they utilize to his strength.

Just like Hines or anyone else in the organization will tell you: No matter what, we will never be a Colts or Patriots offense. Will we throw the ball MORE than the past? Yes, keeping up with the times but we will continue to pound the rock regardless of if it's working or not.

Arians supplanted a system to where he could allow his offense to grow to open up. In Arians defense, he has had to deal with some freak injuries to not only his QB (s) but to his offensive line as well. Mix that in with losing Santonio Holmes and grooming only a second year player (Wallace) and 2 rookies (Brown, Sanders) and there you have continuity issues.

We are still a running team. We'd like to be a power run team but judging by the way we' drafted the past couple years, the fullback is no longer needed in how we do things, atleast in Arians's eyes.

To Arians defense, he hasn't had MUCH to work with due to injuries to his o-line, which I'm SURE plays with his head in situational mis-haps.

Tomlin is keeping Arians for continuity purpose's only. Hopefully next year we can keep and offensive line healthy mixed in with more groomed young WR's and hopefully we finally take off in Arians's system.

It's bound to happen and it HAS shown glimpses. We'll see if it happens, I'm not giving up on Arians just yet even though signs are there for the whole fanbase to cut his throat.
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Old 02-16-2011, 03:56 PM   #3
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Default Re: So, is Tomlin a liar?

it doesnt rhyme.
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Old 02-16-2011, 04:10 PM   #4
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Default Re: So, is Tomlin a liar?

Quote:
Originally Posted by StainlessStill View Post
We are still a running team.
Really? I'm not sure I know what the Steelers offensive identity is. One thing is pretty clear, Arians doesn't attack an opponent's weakness. Which makes sense because we see game planning that seem to fall right into the opponent's strengths, totally disregard weather and obviously doesn't consider field position.

But I will agree that Arians did have the deck stacked against him this year with all of crap that went down (QB issues, injuries, inexperienced WRs) and yet they still made the SB.
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Old 02-16-2011, 05:25 PM   #5
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Default Re: So, is Tomlin a liar?

The thing about "identities" that bugs me is that it runs very close to the old "imposing your will" mantra that was popular for a long time.

But teams to day are becoming more adaptable and if a team holds to just one identity, it is going to run into situations where that identity doesn't fit against certain teams and that's where we are now.

I read an interesting story this past season about how Belichick prepared for playing Chicago.
He said that he knew it was going to be snowing and that the field would be slick. He also knew that the prevailing philosophy in snowy conditions is to run the ball most of the time.

What he did instead was to bring a passing game to Chicago. The way he schemed it was to almost always have two receivers run out-routes. This naturally brings the Cornerbacks to the edge of the field but because of the slippery conditions, it would also have the Safeties favoring the sidelines so that they could guard against a Cornerback slipping and the receiver racing up the sidelines.

What this did was to leave the middle wide open and Brady dinked and dunked Chicago to death over the middle and they ended up winning big -- all with a mostly passing attack in crummy conditions.

What impressed me about that was the fact that Belichick didn't buy into any "identity" nonsense about how to play in snow and he not only decided to pass, but he designed a specific way in which to do it JUST for that one day in Chicago. If it hadn't snowed and the field was dry, he would have brought something else to the table.
The point here is that Belichick didn't play with an identity in mind, he played with winning in mind and did whatever he had to do and took on whatever identity was necessary to do it. There have also been games in which Belichick has had well over 35 or 40 running plays despite having a top-shelf QB because on that day, running was what he needed to do.

But when he decides to run or pass, he doesn't just call more running plays or more passing plays but he rather sits down and designs entire schemes based on his opponents strengths and weaknesses to the point of designing specific types of running or passing plays just for that opponent.

Identities work in a general sense and a team obviously has to "be" something most of the time. But identities can also lock a team into a mindset where they try to make a single thing work all of the time despite having trouble with it against teams that are built to stop whatever it is they're trying to do.

I believe that successful teams going forward are going to be those that can adapt to changing situations whether in game-planning or even within the game itself, rather than those who simply try to bring some "identity" with them and expect that to work no matter what.
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Old 02-16-2011, 05:29 PM   #6
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Default Re: So, is Tomlin a liar?

Quote:
Originally Posted by thumper View Post
When he first became head coach, there was a story
about the posters in his office. His most prominently-placed
picture was of a power rushing, goal line play
up the middle.

Tomlin said he liked it best because it illustrated what he
thinks football, and Steeler football, is all about.

All that being said, why would he keep an OC who doesn't
even feel the need for a FB? That is totally crap.

Power football is usually accompanied with a FB, and if not,
you usually at least have a FB on the roster if you believe in
power football. So why is Arians still OC?

His philosophies do not mesh with Pgh or Tomlin - or at least
what Tomlin SAYS any how.
No he has just evolved, this is not the 70's anymore - today NFL is a passing NFL.
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Old 02-16-2011, 06:07 PM   #7
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Default Re: So, is Tomlin a liar?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaineSteelerFan View Post
No he has just evolved, this is not the 70's anymore - today NFL is a passing NFL.
There is still room and value in having a thumping FB.
Others have brought up the fact that they refuse to have
a FB on the roster, but use a TE as a FB, but doing a poor
job of it. Why have Johnson on the roster instead of a real,
true FB who slobberknockers people? It's not like Johnson
is __ also __ offering catching ability. As a matter of fact,
most FBs are probably better pass catchers than is Johnson,
so what is the point of having a blocking TE serving as a FB
who is neither good at rush blocking OR any good at catching?
WTF is the purpose of that? Give me a young Kreider in the backfield
over what they are trying to do with TEs any day. It's just not smart -
the manner in which they are scheming this shit.
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Old 02-16-2011, 06:17 PM   #8
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Default Re: So, is Tomlin a liar?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FanSince72 View Post
The thing about "identities" that bugs me is that it runs very close to the old "imposing your will" mantra that was popular for a long time.

But teams to day are becoming more adaptable and if a team holds to just one identity, it is going to run into situations where that identity doesn't fit against certain teams and that's where we are now.

I read an interesting story this past season about how Belichick prepared for playing Chicago.
He said that he knew it was going to be snowing and that the field would be slick. He also knew that the prevailing philosophy in snowy conditions is to run the ball most of the time.

What he did instead was to bring a passing game to Chicago. The way he schemed it was to almost always have two receivers run out-routes. This naturally brings the Cornerbacks to the edge of the field but because of the slippery conditions, it would also have the Safeties favoring the sidelines so that they could guard against a Cornerback slipping and the receiver racing up the sidelines.

What this did was to leave the middle wide open and Brady dinked and dunked Chicago to death over the middle and they ended up winning big -- all with a mostly passing attack in crummy conditions.

What impressed me about that was the fact that Belichick didn't buy into any "identity" nonsense about how to play in snow and he not only decided to pass, but he designed a specific way in which to do it JUST for that one day in Chicago. If it hadn't snowed and the field was dry, he would have brought something else to the table.
The point here is that Belichick didn't play with an identity in mind, he played with winning in mind and did whatever he had to do and took on whatever identity was necessary to do it. There have also been games in which Belichick has had well over 35 or 40 running plays despite having a top-shelf QB because on that day, running was what he needed to do.

But when he decides to run or pass, he doesn't just call more running plays or more passing plays but he rather sits down and designs entire schemes based on his opponents strengths and weaknesses to the point of designing specific types of running or passing plays just for that opponent.

Identities work in a general sense and a team obviously has to "be" something most of the time. But identities can also lock a team into a mindset where they try to make a single thing work all of the time despite having trouble with it against teams that are built to stop whatever it is they're trying to do.

I believe that successful teams going forward are going to be those that can adapt to changing situations whether in game-planning or even within the game itself, rather than those who simply try to bring some "identity" with them and expect that to work no matter what.
I totally get what you are saying about Belichick and how he never cares about
an "identity" (other than winning) and just does what's smart as far as
game planning goes. My point isn't that Pgh should have a FB because it
would be closer to their identity; I only care that they had one b.c it made SENSE
and would lead to more winning. I really don't get what the value is in using a TE
who isn't that good at rush blocking __ or __ pass catching to be used in
the way a FB would be used. Give me a real gad damn FB if you do feel the
need for rush blocking out of the backfield.

That doesn't mean - at all - that having a FB means your team will be antiquated
and not use the current rules to pass the ball. The fact that they use Johnson
as a FB in many plays proves that they do value the extra blocker. SO GIVE US ONE.
Let's not forget it was Johnson's missed block that helped lead to the game-losing
fumble of Mendy - he blew it.
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Old 02-16-2011, 06:49 PM   #9
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Default Re: So, is Tomlin a liar?

Is this a poetry thread?
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Old 02-16-2011, 07:51 PM   #10
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Default Re: So, is Tomlin a liar?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tony hipchest View Post
it doesnt rhyme.
Here ya go:

When he first became head coach there was a story,
about the posters in his office depicting Steeler glory.
His most prominently-placed picture was of a power rushing goal line play,
up the middle amongst the fray.

Tomlin said he liked it best because without a doubt, is what he
thinks football, and Steeler football, is all about.

All that being said,
why would he keep an OC who doesn't give head,
or feel the need, to have a FB that defenses would dread?
It's not because of the salary cap. That is totally crap.

Power football is usually accompanied with a FB and if not,
you usually at least have a FB that has a roster spot.
If you believe in power football thats nasty and mean,
why is Arians still OC of this team?

His philosophies do not mesh with Pgh or Tomlin before or now - or at least with
what Tomlin SAYS anyhow.
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