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Old 03-11-2011, 03:24 PM   #21
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Default Re: gas prices on the rise

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Originally Posted by SCMom View Post
Because of full EV cars that average 23 KWh (hybrids are significantly less)?

That's the equivalent of 23 100 watt lightbulbs (or appliances in similar wattage) being on for 10 hours. It's really not that much.
for now maybe... but wait till a hundred million of these cars start demanding a charge. the electric companies will take up the "supply and demand " philosophy that the oil companies use to rape the consumer.
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Old 03-11-2011, 03:25 PM   #22
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Default Re: gas prices on the rise

As for cost (mind you, this was written 2 years ago)...

Quote:
What Does It Cost To Operate an Electric Car?

* June 11th, 2008 3:29 pm ET


Chevy Volt Concept Car

Electric cars, particularly gas electric hybrid cars, have the potential to lower our gasoline costs. But do they really save us any money?

First, how much does the electricity cost to charge a car? A gallon of gasoline has the equivalent energy content of 37 KWA of electricity. To compare costs, we have to factor for engine efficiency. A gasoline car engine has an efficiency of about 30% converting the gasoline into actual mechanical power. An electric engine has an efficiency of about 95%, so it essentially converts all of the electric power into mechanical energy.

Assuming an average electric cost of 8.7 cents per KWA, the equivalent of a gallon of gasoline would cost $1.02. [(0.087 * 37 / 0.95) * 0.3] If you can get your electric power at off-peak rates available from some utilities, your cost may be half this much.

This, however, is not the whole cost. You also have to count the cost of the battery. Assume an electric car battery will last for 4,000 charge cycles in the car and holds the energy equivalent of one gallon of gasoline (about 12 KWH). Batteries deteriorate with age so the battery will hold less power over time. The distance a car will go on a charge will deteriorate to the point that the battery will need to be replaced. The battery may still be useful to a stationary application like storing energy at a wind farm where charge capacity vs. weight or size is not an issue.

If the battery costs $4,000 dollars then each charge will cost you $1.00 for the electricity and $1.00 for use of the battery; a total fuel cost of $2.00 per gallon. If the battery cost goes up to $12,000 then your fuel cost is actually $4.00 per gallon.

So the battery cost is a big determining factor on how much ‘fuel’ savings you will receive from your electric car. Note that the mpg rating of the car is not a factor in this computation. It only assumes that the battery is replacing one gallon of gasoline.

There are numerous other factors that affect the cost of ownership for a hybrid electric vehicle:

* The car may require much less maintenance.
* The car without the battery may cost less than the equivalent gasoline powered car.
* The battery may have value after the end of its useful life in the car.
* A car may be purchased and the battery leased where you only pay the difference between the value new vs. the residual value plus financing charge.
* The price of gasoline may keep going up.
* The availability of off-peak power pricing.
* The cost of charging a car away from home. Some businesses my offer free or discount charging as a loss leader for shopping at their store. The equivalent of selling milk below cost.
* Government and utility credits.


Continue reading on Examiner.com: What Does It Cost To Operate an Electric Car? - National Global Warming | Examiner.com http://www.examiner.com/global-warmi...#ixzz1GKQCDkHT
Quote:
On his Founder's Blog, Eberhard writes, "Every answer I have seen to this question has been squishy, and looking back, my own answers have been squishy too. The reason is that you don't buy electricity the way you buy gasoline." It's fairly easy to calculate how much you pay per-mile to drive a gas-powered car. "You can see how far a tank of gas takes you, do a little division, and you can say that your car burns, say, 15 cents of gasoline per mile. Simple." But electricity is more complicated. The cost of charging your electric car would vary based on where you live, what time of day you charge the car, etc.

Using rates from his own local utility, Eberhard concludes, "A Tesla Roadster will cost something between 2 cents a mile and 6 cents a mile."

Autoblog Green notes, "At $4.00 a gallon, a car that gets over 40 miles per gallon would still cost double" that amount "per mile to operate."

If you're curious about your own potential costs, Eberhard has provided the spreadsheet he used to do his math for download.

Edmunds Inside Line comments that whatever your results may be, "the simple answer is," electricity costs "less than gas."

That's true...somewhat. We should note that the math doesn't address how "green" it is to power an electric car. The increased electrical usage may come from a less-than-clean electrical plant, for instance. An electric car plugged into a wall socket that receives its power from a coal-burning power plant is...well...a fossil-fuel powered car. It may produce lower emissions than a gasoline-powered car, but it isn't necessarily a free lunch.

Of course, Eberhard's calculations were about finances, not emission. The Tesla Roadster's six-figure price tag makes cost-to-own calculations academic for many of us -- we aren't going to be able to buy the car, anyway. But with electric Nissans, electric MINIs, electric Mitsubishis and perhaps even electric BMWs on the way, it's probably time to start doing the math.

http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com...Electric-Car-/
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Old 03-11-2011, 03:27 PM   #23
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Default Re: gas prices on the rise

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for now maybe... but wait till a hundred million of these cars start demanding a charge. the electric companies will take up the "supply and demand " philosophy that the oil companies use to rape the consumer.
Maybe...or maybe it'll stay the same or even get cheaper. Electric is already much cheaper (along with easier and more readily available) than gasoline anyway. Plus you don't need to (or won't) import it.

Of course it'll probably go up some though. That would just be expected. I doubt it would ever be at the cost of oil though. Just my opinion on it though.

Of course, this is all contingent on if the hippies stop trying to shut down nuclear power plants or not.
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Old 03-11-2011, 03:32 PM   #24
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Default Re: gas prices on the rise

like i said, those figures are based on rates at the time the articles are written.
let the electric companies get a monopoly on transpertation and watch the greed be unleashed on the people....their prices will skyrocket once they got us all by the balls like oil companies do now.
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Old 03-11-2011, 03:34 PM   #25
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Default Re: gas prices on the rise

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Originally Posted by SCMom View Post
Just get a hybrid...or a full EV.

EV's aren't convenient for long road trips (yet)...but most of them have a range of 100 miles now (some get more), which is more than enough for most people to get to work and back, and take care of errands.

http://www.hybridcars.com/electric-car
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Old 03-11-2011, 03:51 PM   #26
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Default Re: gas prices on the rise

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So the battery cost is a big determining factor on how much ‘fuel’ savings you will receive from your electric car.
this is HUGE.... once you spend the 25 or 30k for the car ... how much are they going to gouge you for the replacement batteries every couple years ?
i have a few tools that run off of lithium ion batteries. it costs almost as much for a replacement battery as it does to just buy a new tool with the battery...
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Old 03-11-2011, 03:56 PM   #27
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Default Re: gas prices on the rise

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Originally Posted by MasterOfPuppets View Post
this is HUGE.... once you spend the 25 or 30k for the car ... how much are they going to gouge you for the replacement batteries every couple years ?
i have a few tools that run off of lithium ion batteries. it costs almost as much for a replacement battery as it does to just buy a new tool with the battery...
Depends on how pricey they get...

Quote:
If the battery costs $4,000 dollars then each charge will cost you $1.00 for the electricity and $1.00 for use of the battery; a total fuel cost of $2.00 per gallon. If the battery cost goes up to $12,000 then your fuel cost is actually $4.00 per gallon.
You can also have a conversion done on your own car (most models and makes) to make it electric. It still costs a bit of money...but it's cheaper than buying a brand new car. Plus you can always buy used if you want.

If it makes any difference to you...I'm dirt cheap (no, not THAT way), and I'm considering getting one (we need a new 2nd car anyhow though).

I suppose it's not cost efficient if you don't already need a new car, but IMO the cost of battery is a wash because EVs are cheaper to maintain in every other aspect.

*Edit* Did a quick search and found this...

Quote:
How Much Do Electric Car Batteries Cost

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*

electric car batteries on wheels

The price of different electric car batteries varies depending on the size and type of battery you want. All batteries are rechargeable and last for about 7 years, so you will not have to worry about electric car battery cost very often. Most expenses associated with your electric car's battery will be for recharging. Since this technology
is relatively new, there are not many electric car battery companies that only produce batteries for electric cars, so you should search for this type of battery at electric car manufacturers. Different batteries will be priced differently based on the size of the batteries and the materials they are made from.

Size and Materials

The cheapest variety of battery available for electric cars is made of lead and can go from $100 to $140, depending on the battery's size. This type of battery has to be recharged about once every 150 miles. The most expensive material to use in a car battery is lithium. Lithium batteries for electric cars can go for anywhere between $500 and $650, but they only have to be recharged every three hundred miles. They also last longer than any other type of battery for an electric car. There are many sizes available for each type of battery, and smaller sizes are usually cheaper with a lower energy capacity. Other materials commonly used to make electric car batteries include nickel and metal hydride, NiCd, zinc and molten salt. These other materials are much less commonly used than lead-acid and lithium ions or polymers. Lead batteries also weigh the most.

http://www.carsdirect.com/electric-c...batteries-cost
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Old 03-20-2011, 09:10 PM   #28
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Default Re: gas prices on the rise

Average cost of gasoline rises to $3.57 a gallon

Cost continues to increase amid worries about Middle East stability


NEW YORK — Gasoline prices in the United States rose 6.65 cents per gallon over a two-week period, carried by the rise in crude oil prices stemming from the turmoil in Libya, an industry analyst said.
The national average for a gallon of self-serve, regular gasoline was $3.57 on March 18, according to the Lundberg Survey of about 2,500 gas stations.
The 6.65-cent increase came two weeks after gasoline prices jumped almost 33 cents in the prior two-week period, according to survey editor Trilby Lundberg.
"This is the rest of what crude oil prices did to gasoline, as violence and protest in varying degrees swept through" oil-producing countries in the Middle East and Africa, Lundberg said in an interview on Sunday.
Prices in crude oil "declined somewhat in the last two weeks," she said, citing some traders' fears that the earthquake, tsunami and nuclear crisis in Japan "might mean economic devastation."
But after U.S. and European forces started a military intervention in Libya this weekend, oil prices may be headed for another spike, ( what a shocker ) according to Lundberg.
"This weekend the world has changed," she said. "Instead of seeing the end of the price rise coming up, or even a decline, we might see a resumption of the climb at the pump."
The current average price is nearly 76 cents above the year-ago level, but is still about 54 cents below the all-time high of $4.1124 on July 11, 2008.
Copyright 2011 Thomson Reuters. Click for restrictions.
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Old 03-21-2011, 01:02 PM   #29
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Default Re: gas prices on the rise

Change we can believe in!
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Old 07-16-2011, 11:58 PM   #30
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Default Re: gas prices on the rise

well....here we go again....we pretty much bottomed out at $3.55 in my area , now were already back up to $3.65 , and of course no reasons givin for the price spike....
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