Why register with the Steelers Fever Forums?
 • Intelligent and friendly discussions.
 • It's free and it's quick. Always.
 • Enter events in the forums calendar.
 • Very user friendly software.
 • Exclusive contests and giveaways.

 Donate to Steelers Fever, Click here
 Our 2014 Goal: $450.00 - To Date: $450.00 (100.00%)
 Home | Forums | Editorials | Shop | Tickets | Downloads | Contact Pittsburgh Steelers Forum Feed Not Just Fans. Hardcore Fans.

Go Back   Steelers Fever Forums > Steelers Football > Steelers Draft Central > ** The War Room 2012 **


Steelers Fever Fan Shop

Doc's Sports Get FREE NFL Picks and College Football picks as well as Football Lines like live NFL Lines and updated NFL Power Rankings all at Doc's Sports Service.

Steelers Fever Presents...
Bills
GAMEDAY
September 11, 2014, 8:25pm ET
CBS
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-08-2011, 07:59 PM   #1
mesaSteeler
A Son of Martha
Supporter
 

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Mesa, Arizona
Posts: 7,976
Gender: Male
Member Number: 10438
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Steelers Ainít Bad at Moving Up (and Down) Draft Board

Steelers Ainít Bad at Moving Up (and Down) Draft Board
Posted on March 8, 2011 by ryan
http://www.steelerslounge.com/2011/0...g-draft-board/

I remain conflicted about who the Steelers should draft in the first round. This is not unusual. I do have it narrowed down to defensive back or offensive lineman, undoubtedly because those are the two positions where Pittsburgh annually needs help. And, hell, maybe even defensive line, depending on how the first 30 picks shake out.

In the last few weeks I have written on CB vs. OL, and why we should temper expectations for a Mike and Maurkice reunion should it happen. Now, after finally getting through all the NFL Network combine footage that had been taking up way too much room on my DVR, hereís a first pass at the Steelersí early-round draft strategy.

1) Get an o-lineman in the first round. This has less to do with need than available talent. As I have written before, the Steelers can win with the current cast of characters, both in the secondary and lined up in front of Big Ben. So if the depth at safety and cornerback were top-heavy, Iíd have little trouble suggesting the Steelers should go safety or cornerback early and sort out the offensive line with later picks.

As it stands, Patrick Peterson and Prince Amukamara will be long gone when Pittsburgh goes on the clock. Mike Mayock loves Jimmy Smithís physical skills but his off-field issues will likely mean the Steelers wonít be interested. Itís not clear if Aaron Williams is a better safety than cornerback, and if you believe the predraft obfuscation, safety Rahim Moore is no longer a first-round pick. According to the National Football Post, ďMoore didnít time very well, and he turned off some teams in the interview room too,Ē although Mayock and Deion Sanders loved his combine workout.

There appear to be seven or eight offensive linemen who could be first-round selections. And six weeks out from the real thing, some mock drafts have Mike Pouncey falling to 31 (admittedly, that seemed like a stretch in Indy when everybody and his brother couldnít talk about how much Mike blew them away both physically and in interviews). Thereís also a chance tackle Derek Sherrod is around, or guard Danny Watkins.

Shutdown Cornerís Doug Farrar absolutely loves Sherrod (and unlike me, Doug really knows what heís talking about), and Pouncey II or Watkins could be Day 1 starters. That would be less likely with the crop of DBs still available at the bottom of first round. Which leads me to thisÖ

2) Get a defensive back in Rounds 2-3. Gretz wrote about it last week but the Steelers have drafted exactly one cornerback in the first round since 1996. Thatís not to say they havenít needed one for 14 straight drafts, itís just that the whole best-player-available philosophy got in the way.

The second- and third-round results are mixed ó Colclough redefined bust and B-Mac was adequate before he returned from his one-year stint on the frontier of Steelers West. Hank Poteatís claim to fame is that he went to Pitt and Keenan Lewisí claim to fame is that he knew Mike Wallace before the rest of us did. But good buddy Jim Wexell, speaking prior to the draft, and some insights about the Steelersí draft strategy (via Behind the Steel Curtain).

So with corners, a lot has to do with size and speed at the Combine, so thatís a little caveat. Otherwise, there are like 17, 18 corners that get third- or fourth-round grades. So itís a deep class. Not only do you have a guy like Patrick Peterson who could possibly become the first cornerback ever chosen at No. 1, itís a deep crop. So I donít know that they have to get one in the first round. I went through a little mini-mockÖ.because Kevin Colbert had said on the first day that this draft is deep in corners, offensive tackles, and wide receivers, and we could mix and match and get one of at the bottom of each of the first three rounds. Mix and match. So I went into that thinking, mix and match, letís get one of each. And I came away regretting getting a cornerback in the first round because there were so many good ones available in the third. And I wonder if the Steelers will be thinking that way.

Wex mentioned guys like Utahís Brandon Burton (he has two scheduled meeting with the Steelers) and Virginia Techís Rashad Carmichael. And then thereís Rahim Moore. Pittsburgh just hired Carnell Lake as their new defensive backs coach Want to guess who Lake coached up at UCLA? Yep, Lake (and (Randy mentioned this last week in the comments).

Moore had 10 picks as a sophomore and Mayock referred to him as ďa poor manís Earl Thomas.Ē There are worse comparisons. (ďRich manís Brent Alexander, for example.) And if he checks out with the Steelers, maybe heís a possible second-round target, although Pittsburgh will probably have to trade up to get him.

3) Trade up if you think itís absolutely worth it. A few Fridayís back I wrote about the expectations that would accompany Mike Pouncey to the Steelers a) should they want him and, b) if he isnít drafted by another team first. In the comments, Easy Like Sunday Morning brought up the idea of trading up or down if the Steelers have their heart set on their notion of ďbest player available.Ē

I reflexively wrote in the post that, ďIn general, Iím opposed to trading up.Ē Although, after thinking about it for 10 seconds, I have no idea why.

ELSMís comment ended with this: ďI also like it when we trade up or down because it is a sign that BPA, our need, and the needs of teams around us have converged. Our success rate with such trades seems like it has been pretty good relative to expectations (eg, compared to our other picks and other teamsí pick success rates). A blog post reviewing our success rate on trading up and down would be interesting.Ē

Okay, letís do this. A brief history of the Steelersí draft-day trades and the subsequent consequences.

2001
Steelers traded their first-round (No. 16) selection to the New York Jets for the Jets first- (No. 19), fourth- (No. 111) and sixth-round (No. 181) selections. New York selected Santana Moss, WR, Miami. Pittsburgh selected Casey Hampton, DT, Texas; Mathias Nkwenti, OT, Temple and Rodney Bailey, DE, Ohio State.

New England Patriots traded their second-round (No. 39) selection to Pittsburgh for the Steelers second- (No. 50) and fourth-round (No. 112) selections. Pittsburgh selected Kendrell Bell, LB, Georgia. New England traded No. 50 to Detroit (Dominic Raiola, C) and traded No. 112 to San Diego (Carlos Polk, LB). [SI.com]

Using the trusty CarAV statistic created by the folks at Pro Football Reference (explained here), we can begin to compare how the players worked out for each team (Note: thereís a good chance I missed some trades, and misreported others. This is not intentional. Let me know in the comments and Iíll fix it):

Name CarAV
Hampton 66
Bell 41
Nkwenti 0
Bailey 8

Moss 66
Raiola 44
Polk 7

Based on CarAV, itís a wash, 115-117. But the Steelers got what they wanted ó a chubby guy to plug up the middle of the line ó even if they whiffed on Nkwenti.

2002
No trades. [SI.com: Day 1, Day 2]

2003
Steelers get: No. 16 overall pick. Chiefs get: No. 27 overall and Pittsburghís third-round pick (No. 92) and sixth-round pick (No. 200). The fallout: Afraid USCís Troy Polamalu wouldnít last until its pick at No. 27, Pittsburgh moved up to get the hard-hitting safety. Meanwhile, the Chiefs were still able to land Penn State RB Larry Johnson as insurance for Priest Holmes, and selected DB Julian Battle wat No. 92. They later traded the sixth-round pick (No. 200, QB Brooks Bollinger). [ESPN]

Name CarAV
Polamalu 75

Johnson 56
Battle 2
Bollinger 6

2004
The Steelers gave up their 44th pick (Bob Sanders, S) and their 107th pick (Kendyll Pope, LB) to move up to 38 to get Colclough. [HSS]

Name CarAV
Colclough 3

Sanders 32
Pope 0

Yeah, that Bob Sanders guy might have fit in nicely in Pittsburgh.

* I couldnít confirm, but I think the Steelers took Matt Kranchick (!) with the pick they got from St. Louis in the Troy Edwards trade. I didnít include it above, but mention it here for completeness.

2005
No trades. [FootballsFuture.com]

2006
Steelers get: 25th pick in 2006 draft (selected WR Santonio Holmes).
Giants get: 32nd pick in 1st round (selected DE Mathias Kiwanuka), 32nd in the 3rd round (96th overall, Gerris Wilkinson MLB) and 32nd in the 4th round (129th overall, Guy Whimper DE).

Vikings get: 32nd pick in 2nd round (64th overall, selected QB Tarvaris Jackson).
Steelers get: 19th pick in third round (83rd overall, selected Anthony Smith) and 31st pick in third round (95th overall, selected Willie Reid). [ESPN]

Name CarAV
Holmes 38
Smith 12
Reid 1

Kiwanuka 22
Wilkinson 6
Whimper 2
Jackson 12

Itís interesting that the Steelers struck gold by trading up to get Holmes, but took a dump in the pool when they traded back for Smith and Reid.

2007
Steelers, Packers swap fourth-rounders.
Pittsburgh Steelers: Acquire pick No. 112 (selected P Daniel Sepulveda).
Green Bay Packers: Acquire picks No. 119 (fourth round, Allen Barbre OT) and No. 192 (sixth round, Korey Hall LB). [ESPN]

Name CarAV
Sepulveda 0

Barbre 7
Hall 11

And I had such high hopes for ROBO-PUNTER.

2008
The Pittsburgh Steelers trade their 2008 7th round pick to the Atlanta Falcons for kick/punt returner Allen Rossum. [MyNFLDraft.com]

Name CarAV
Rossum 2*

Zinger 1

* 2 was PFRís approximate value for Rossum in 2007, his one year in Pittsburgh as a returner.

2009
Pittsburgh trades a second-round pick (No. 64: Richard Quinn) and a fourth-round pick (No. 132: Seth Olsen) to Denver in exchange for two third-round picks (Nos. 79: Kraig Urbik and 84: Mike Wallace) [CBSSports.com]

Name CarAV
Urbik 0
Wallace 18

Quinn 3
Olsen 0

Josh McDaniels, everybody!

2010
Arizona Cardinals: Acquire pick No. 155 in 2010 (John Skelton, QB)
Pittsburgh Steelers: Acquire pick No. 195 in 2010 (Antonio Brown) and DB Bryant McFadden.
[ESPN]

Name CarAV
Brown 2
McFadden 8*

Skelton 0

* 8 was PFRís approximate value for B-Mac in 2010. (I was shocked, too.). Whatever, even Brown for Skelton straight up is a win for the Steelers.

So, the takeaway from all this? Like most things, the people making personnel decisions on the South Side have a pretty good grasp on what theyíre doing. Which means that if there is a player they think is absolutely worth trading up (or back) for, they should probably do it.
mesaSteeler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2011, 09:49 PM   #2
PhantomJB93
Team President
 
PhantomJB93's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Blacksburg, VA
Posts: 2,059
Gender: Male
Member Number: 13907
Thanks: 438
Thanked 973 Times in 473 Posts
My Mood: Drunk
Default Re: Steelers Ainít Bad at Moving Up (and Down) Draft Board

I was looking and I think we could possibly see a trade-up with New Orleans on draft day, they seem like a team without a "glaring" need that wouldn't lose much by trading back to 31, and if we traded with them it would put us in front of Baltimore and Seattle who are both looking at CBs as well as Seattle, Chicago, and New England who are all candidates to take an Olineman. If a highly rated CB lke Brandon Harris or Jimmy Smith or a particularly highly rated OT or Pouncey is remaining I wouldn't be surprised if we swap with the Saints.
PhantomJB93 is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:37 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Shoutbox provided by vBShout v6.2.1 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.0.8 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd. Runs best on HiVelocity Hosting.
Navbar with Avatar by Motorradforum
no new posts