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Old 12-14-2011, 10:12 AM   #11
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Default Re: any fine or suspension for browns phil taylor yet?

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Originally Posted by Dodens Grav View Post
You're allowed to hit a runner helmet to helmet because 1) it's impractical and impossible to not tackle a runner helmet to helmet sometimes because they use their own helmet to drive themselves forward and 2) when they are a runner, they are already cognizant of their surroundings and are in a position to defend themselves. I don't see this as hypocrisy. Do you know how many penalties and fines and suspensions there would be every single game if helmet to helmet contact on any runner was a flag?

Also, I don't remember Ben getting "clubbed in the head". When did this happen?
Sorry guy, but that first part seems like such a load of BS. Did roger write that for you? So they're supposed to be safe...unless it's impractical?? What?? It's hard to tackle a runner without a helmet to helmet hit but not a QB or WR? I would think it's easier to tackle a RB without a helmet-to-helmet hit. Either you preach safety and stand behind it all the way or you pick and chose and look like you are fixing games. Plain and simple.

On the second part, did you watch the game? Ben got chopped across the head and got up moving his head like his neck was hurt.
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Old 12-14-2011, 10:16 AM   #12
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Default Re: any fine or suspension for browns phil taylor yet?

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It's almost annoying how much you guys are crying about Harrison. I couldn't even defend the hit the first time I saw it. I was in shock that he actually went to the head regardless if he thought McCoy was a runner. He was behind the LoS. He should have aimed lower knowing Goodell is not a fan of his.

Now the Fitzpatrick, Brees and Jason Campbell fines were all bogus. But I thought this and the Massoquoi fines were perfectly warranted.
It's annoying for fans wanting things to be called fairly? Really? Wow.

And the call against Harrison was roughing the passer. So had he aimed lower, they still would have thrown a flag. The refs felt he hit him too hard. I guess he's just supposed to wave his hands in his face and try to swat the ball. I guess I don't remember old Colt having on a red practice jersey.
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Old 12-14-2011, 10:27 AM   #13
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Default Re: any fine or suspension for browns phil taylor yet?

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You're allowed a helmet to helmet hit on a runner (Mendenhall). I don't know why people keep whining about that.
Either they are concerned about player safety, and specifically head injuries, or they are not. Which is it?

As far as Phil Taylor, there is no way to know if he got a fine. The league only announces suspensions, not fines. Normally, when we find out about fines, it's from the player themselves or their agent.
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Old 12-14-2011, 10:41 AM   #14
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Default Re: any fine or suspension for browns phil taylor yet?

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Originally Posted by DanRooney View Post
It's almost annoying how much you guys are crying about Harrison. I couldn't even defend the hit the first time I saw it. I was in shock that he actually went to the head regardless if he thought McCoy was a runner. He was behind the LoS. He should have aimed lower knowing Goodell is not a fan of his.

Now the Fitzpatrick, Brees and Jason Campbell fines were all bogus. But I thought this and the Massoquoi fines were perfectly warranted.
Uh, considering that those bogus fines were taken into account and weighed heavily into the establishment of Harrison as a "repeat offender" who was worthy of a suspension, the suspension was also complete bullshit, no? There's a huge difference between a fine and a suspension.
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Old 12-14-2011, 10:45 AM   #15
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Default Re: any fine or suspension for browns phil taylor yet?

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You're allowed a helmet to helmet hit on a runner (Mendenhall). I don't know why people keep whining about that.
so the only difference between it being legal or illegal is whether or not the person that takes the hit has the ball or not ? so if McCoy doesn't throw the ball .3 seconds before the hit it's completely legal to put your helmet in his grill ? how exactly does having a football in your hand make a concussion less likely to happen ? does the ball magically absorb the impact to your head ?
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Old 12-14-2011, 10:57 AM   #16
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Default Re: any fine or suspension for browns phil taylor yet?

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Either they are concerned about player safety, and specifically head injuries, or they are not. Which is it?

As far as Phil Taylor, there is no way to know if he got a fine. The league only announces suspensions, not fines. Normally, when we find out about fines, it's from the player themselves or their agent.
Really? Because I and the rest of the NFL world seems to know that Harrison was fined about $100,000 last year.
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Old 12-14-2011, 10:58 AM   #17
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Default Re: any fine or suspension for browns phil taylor yet?

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Really? Because I and the rest of the NFL world seems to know that Harrison was fined about $100,000 last year.
The league didn't announce those fines. James Harrison and his agent did.

Edit: I should say the league normally does not announce fines. Of course, Goodell's NFL is not consistent about anything, so I'm sure that they occasionally announce them.
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Old 12-14-2011, 02:00 PM   #18
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Default Re: any fine or suspension for browns phil taylor yet?

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Originally Posted by DanRooney View Post
It's almost annoying how much you guys are crying about Harrison. I couldn't even defend the hit the first time I saw it. I was in shock that he actually went to the head regardless if he thought McCoy was a runner. He was behind the LoS. He should have aimed lower knowing Goodell is not a fan of his.

Now the Fitzpatrick, Brees and Jason Campbell fines were all bogus. But I thought this and the Massoquoi fines were perfectly warranted.
Massoquoi was a runner. As you stated, you can hit a runner helmet-to-helmet. That being said, the hit on Mccoy warranted a fine at most, but given James Harrison's track record, he got suspended. I do not agree with this at all; I think it give a bad precedence for the future, and will make defenders think twice about jarring the ball loose out of a receiver's grasp, or hitting a running QB. You think you have seen alot of miss tackles this year? just wait to this upcoming week.
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Old 12-14-2011, 02:22 PM   #19
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Default Re: any fine or suspension for browns phil taylor yet?

When I first read the statement from Mike Holmgren that the team did not administer concussion tests on the field, I was a little surprised. It seemed that it was obvious to everyone watching the game that he should have been evaluated after that hit.
When "Holmgren said the Browns medical and training staff did not see the hit and did not realize the impact because they were treating other injured players at the time. McCoy was "lucid and talking," Holmgren said, when they tended to him on the field."
What about the coaches?! I thought, considering how lame this was as an excuse. After reading the updated concussion guidelines that was literally released weeks ago, I came across this:
"The new guidance supplements the 2007 statement on return-to-play that encouraged team physicians and athletic trainers to continue to take a conservative approach to treating concussions and established that a player should not return to the same game after a concussion if the team medical staff determined that he had lost consciousness."
I was kinda surprised about how specific the language was in here limiting the personel responsible for observations to these people, and to the player(s) themselves.
This doesn't make what the coach said after the game any better (an outright lie that a concussion test was administered), nor does it excuse everybody else on the team for not stepping up. I also find it hard to beleive that all these trainers and physicians missed this.
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Old 12-14-2011, 03:10 PM   #20
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Default Re: any fine or suspension for browns phil taylor yet?

Here's the deal if you hit someone in the head your fine/flag is a direct result of the following:

1. Did you knock him out
2. Is he a QB
3. Is he a defenseless receiver

If 1 and he is a RB or WR running the ball no harm, no foul, no fine.
If 2 or 3, then flag and possibly fine. Really big fine if the hit results in #1.
Here's the fun part if 2 or 3 and no #1, then you get the flag and may get a fine, hell sometimes you won't even get the flag. It's the same action, but the result is different. In my opinion the result of the play and not the play itself is what the league acts on which is bull shit. You will get run through the media ringer if you knock the guy out or he lays on the ground in agony, but if the person that is hit gets up and guts it out (i.e. Ben/Hines) then the offending party gets the minimum or most of the time nothing at all.

Flag the hits you want to flag, fine the hits you want to fine, and suspend the players you want to suspend, but for God's sake keep it fair for all based on the hit and not the result. I think that is all that most of us are asking for.
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