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Old 01-19-2012, 10:51 PM   #1
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Default Your misplaced Ariens Hate is telling

I'm surprized by the amount of Ariens hate around here. My brother used to feel the same way, he used to get on my nerves with his hatred for Ariens. One day I told him "listen little brother, you just don't understand what you are seeing when you watch football." My little brother never played. I played from the age of 12 to 22, when I blew out my knee.

I explained to my brother that you can't blame the OC when the QB causes more than 50% of the pass plays to break down and turn into chaos.

Ben isn't a rhythm pocket passer, and he isn't an accurate passer. Ben gets the ball close, and the reciever has to adjust to the ball.
Ben needs a big window. Or lots of time.

Ben breaks the play down as soon as he scrambles. Offensive linemen hate to block for Ben because they don't have eyes on the back of their heads. They can't block for him if they don't know where he is.

Ariens tries to compensate for Bens lack of ability by designing short pass plays that are easy to hit.

My only issue with Ariens, is that by doing that, he takes the "attack" out of the offense.
Offense means "Attack". Ariens should design more plays that have design rollouts and waggles. That way, the OL knows where Ben is without seeing him, and Ben can buy the time to look for a big window.

Ariens isn't to blame for the offensive woes, Ben is. Ariens can't make Ben stay in the pocket and pull the trigger. Ariens makes the problem worse, only to the degree that he designs too many short pass plays to accomodate Bens inablity to throw accurate long balls THEREFORE ARIENS AND THE OFFENSE IS PREDICTABLE.

Ben can't throw a good deep ball, so teams don't have to sit in 2-deep and blitz. They can bring their safetys up and get them involved in the run defense, and not worry about corners getting beat deep because Ben just can't make the deep throw.

Nowadays, my brother better understands that , with Ben, the play you see, often isn't the play that was called, or designed. So, he doesn't blame the OC.

So, the question is the mystery: What would happen if Ben just threw on rhythm and ran the play as called?What would happen if he just threw through the window presented? Would the OL look better and be happier if Ben did what the rest of the "PRO Quarterbacks" do , and drop back and get rid of the ball?
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Old 01-19-2012, 11:03 PM   #2
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Default Re: Your misplaced Ariens Hate is telling

Quote:
Originally Posted by former RB View Post
I'm surprized by the amount of Ariens hate around here. My brother used to feel the same way, he used to get on my nerves with his hatred for Ariens. One day I told him "listenlittle brother, you just don't understand what you are seeing when you watch football." My little brother never played. I played from the age of 12 to 22, when I blew out my knee.

I explained to my brother that you can't blame the OC when the QB causes more than 50% of the pass plays to break down and turn into chaos.

Ben isn't a rhythm pocket passer, and he isn't an accurate passer. Ben gets the ball close, and the reciever has to adjust to the ball.
Ben needs a big window. Or lots of time.

Ben breaks the play down as soon as he scrambles. Offensive linemen hate to block for Ben because they don't have eyes on the back of their heads. They can't block for him if they don't know where he is.

Ariens tries to compensate for Bens lack of ability by designing short pass plays that are easy to hit.

My only issue with Ariens, is that by doing that, he takes the "attack" out of the offense.
Offense means "Attack". Ariens should design more plays that have design rollouts and waggles. That way, the OL knws where Ben is without seeing him, and Ben can buy the time to look for a big window.

Ariens isn't o blame for the offensive woes, Ben is. Ariens can't make Ben stay in the pocket and pull the trigger. Ariens makes the problem wrose, only to the degree that he designs too many short pass plays to accomodate Bens inablity to throw accurate long balls THEREFORE ARIENS AND THE OFFENSE IS PREDICTABLE.

Ben can't throw a good deep ball, so teams don't have to sit in 2-deep and blitz. They can bring their safetys up and get them involved in the run defense, and not worry about corners getting beat deep because Ben just can't make the deep throw.
Thank You!

I'm glad that SOMEONE sees this!
In fact, I'd go as far as to say that Ben's random scrambling is a big part of why we have so many injuries in the O-line. All of that "extra" blocking takes its toll especially when getting hit while turning around to see where Ben is.

I've said that Arians is trying to work with Ben's skill-set and with his preference for moving around, but it's not easy to plan for movement that is largely unplanned. It's also true about Ben's lack of a deep ball. That is his Achilles heel and the main reason why we don't "go deep". Ben's wheelhouse is up to about 30 yards or so. In that range he's deadly, but anything longer is iffy at best.

His scrambling ability is his best asset but it's also the hardest thing in the world to game-plan around and if the idea is to let him continue to do that, then I don't think there's an OC in the world who could do much better.
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Old 01-19-2012, 11:03 PM   #3
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Default Re: Your misplaced Ariens Hate is telling

Quote:
Offense means "Attack". Ariens should design more plays that have design rollouts and waggles. That way, the OL knws where Ben is without seeing him, and Ben can buy the time to look for a big window.


exactly!!!! ben is perfectly built for that! mike shanahan would absolutely LOVE a qb like ben.

the problem with arians is that he refuses to design those plays because he actually believes he is tricking the rest of the NFL by NOT doing what obviously should be done.

hes a genius i tell ya!

so we should just trade ben to washington and find a qb who is more compatable with arians geniusness.
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Old 01-19-2012, 11:12 PM   #4
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Default Re: Your misplaced Ariens Hate is telling

I got into this with someone else in another thread, and I'm certainly willing to get into it here: Let's assume that you are absolutely right, and the problem is Ben. How and why does that make you feel any better about Bruce Arians? I just don't get it.
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Old 01-19-2012, 11:13 PM   #5
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Default Re: Your misplaced Ariens Hate is telling

Quote:
Originally Posted by former RB View Post
I'm surprized by the amount of Ariens hate around here. My brother used to feel the same way, he used to get on my nerves with his hatred for Ariens. One day I told him "listen little brother, you just don't understand what you are seeing when you watch football." My little brother never played. I played from the age of 12 to 22, when I blew out my knee.

I explained to my brother that you can't blame the OC when the QB causes more than 50% of the pass plays to break down and turn into chaos.

Ben isn't a rhythm pocket passer, and he isn't an accurate passer. Ben gets the ball close, and the reciever has to adjust to the ball.
Ben needs a big window. Or lots of time.

Ben breaks the play down as soon as he scrambles. Offensive linemen hate to block for Ben because they don't have eyes on the back of their heads. They can't block for him if they don't know where he is.
Ariens tries to compensate for Bens lack of ability by designing short pass plays that are easy to hit. My only issue with Ariens, is that by doing that, he takes the "attack" out of the offense.
Offense means "Attack". Ariens should design more plays that have design rollouts and waggles. That way, the OL knows where Ben is without seeing him, and Ben can buy the time to look for a big window.

Ariens isn't to blame for the offensive woes, Ben is. Ariens can't make Ben stay in the pocket and pull the trigger. Ariens makes the problem worse, only to the degree that he designs too many short pass plays to accomodate Bens inablity to throw accurate long balls THEREFORE ARIENS AND THE OFFENSE IS PREDICTABLE.

Ben can't throw a good deep ball, so teams don't have to sit in 2-deep and blitz. They can bring their safetys up and get them involved in the run defense, and not worry about corners getting beat deep because Ben just can't make the deep throw.

Nowadays, my brother better understands that , with Ben, the play you see, often isn't the play that was called, or designed. So, he doesn't blame the OC.

So, the question is the mystery: What would happen if Ben just threw on rhythm and ran the play as called?What would happen if he just threw through the window presented? Would the OL look better and be happier if Ben did what the rest of the "PRO Quarterbacks" do , and drop back and get rid of the ball?

....time and time and time and time again this year Ben can't stand in the pocket because our OL is getting mauled, manhandled, and mowed down in 2 seconds and they're all over him. Therefore, he HAS to extend the play (if possible).
Arians is NOT designing short pass plays except for that damned bubble screen. The short slant passes that could be designed...are not being designed.
The more i've looked at this and studied our offense this week, the less i see Ben is the one at fault. It's the playbook and our OL for the most part.
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Old 01-19-2012, 11:14 PM   #6
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Default Re: Your misplaced Ariens Hate is telling

Quote:
Originally Posted by tony hipchest View Post


exactly!!!! ben is perfectly built for that! mike shanahan would absolutely LOVE a qb like ben.

the problem with arians is that he refuses to design those plays because he actually believes he is tricking the rest of the NFL by NOT doing what obviously should be done.

hes a genius i tell ya!

so we should just trade ben to washington and find a qb who is more compatable with arians geniusness.
Of course Shannahan would love a guy like Ben. He had Elway. But you'll remember that Elway learned to stay in the pocket and take the window that was presented to him. It took him about 10 years to learn that in the NFL you only get little or no window to get the ball into your recievers hands.
And Elway and Shannahan didn't get a lombardi until Terrell Davis showed up.!!

That could happen in the Burg if we can get Taiwan Jones.

And I DID mention that Ariens doesn't design those rollouts and waggles, THEREBY TAKING THE "ATTACK" out of "OFFENSE".

There is two ways to handle this problem. Keep trying to "make" Ben into a pocket rhythm passer, or redesign the play schemes to take advantage of Bens strengths.

Somebody, probably Tomlin, is insisting on Ben trying to become a prototype, when he isn't now, nor will he ever be.
Elway made the transition after 10 years in the league. He stayed in the pocket and threw on rhythm, but he was inaccurate as hell. Shannon sharpe made Elway look good by catching so many of Elways 40 yard frozen ropes.
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Old 01-19-2012, 11:18 PM   #7
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Default Re: Your misplaced Ariens Hate is telling

Quote:
Originally Posted by former RB View Post
I'm surprized by the amount of Ariens hate around here. My brother used to feel the same way, he used to get on my nerves with his hatred for Ariens. One day I told him "listen little brother, you just don't understand what you are seeing when you watch football." My little brother never played. I played from the age of 12 to 22, when I blew out my knee.

I explained to my brother that you can't blame the OC when the QB causes more than 50% of the pass plays to break down and turn into chaos.

Ben isn't a rhythm pocket passer, and he isn't an accurate passer. Ben gets the ball close, and the reciever has to adjust to the ball.
Ben needs a big window. Or lots of time.

Ben breaks the play down as soon as he scrambles. Offensive linemen hate to block for Ben because they don't have eyes on the back of their heads. They can't block for him if they don't know where he is.


Ariens tries to compensate for Bens lack of ability by designing short pass plays that are easy to hit.

My only issue with Ariens, is that by doing that, he takes the "attack" out of the offense.
Offense means "Attack". Ariens should design more plays that have design rollouts and waggles. That way, the OL knows where Ben is without seeing him, and Ben can buy the time to look for a big window.

Ariens isn't to blame for the offensive woes, Ben is. Ariens can't make Ben stay in the pocket and pull the trigger. Ariens makes the problem worse, only to the degree that he designs too many short pass plays to accomodate Bens inablity to throw accurate long balls THEREFORE ARIENS AND THE OFFENSE IS PREDICTABLE.

Ben can't throw a good deep ball, so teams don't have to sit in 2-deep and blitz. They can bring their safetys up and get them involved in the run defense, and not worry about corners getting beat deep because Ben just can't make the deep throw.

Nowadays, my brother better understands that , with Ben, the play you see, often isn't the play that was called, or designed. So, he doesn't blame the OC.

So, the question is the mystery: What would happen if Ben just threw on rhythm and ran the play as called?What would happen if he just threw through the window presented? Would the OL look better and be happier if Ben did what the rest of the "PRO Quarterbacks" do , and drop back and get rid of the ball?



I played QB my whole life from 5 til 18 and then some city league shit.. I didnt blow out my knee I just wasnt good enough to go anywhere else.. I was pretty good though but just not good enough.. anyway your dead wrong... sorry

yes BEN is a little different which I like.. its what makes him special.. he has 2 superbowl wins and throws for over 4000 yards so bottom line is he gets it done most times... I got one simple question for you.. Do you have DVR?? I watch and record every game like most steeler fans.. then during the week I re watch it for fun and slow motion many of the plays... the D is running our routes most times.. which are 75 percent 20 yard flags and post patterns... We never isolate Miller on their LB.. .like teams do to us..BEN drops back looks for his first read.. and sometimes his second,,, then he takes off.. the first and second read is hardly ever open that my friend is because of O coord... plain and simple its on tape as Tomlin likes to say.. all you got to do is watch it. On top of that 25 percent of the time he does even have time to look for his 1st or second read because of the line getting their ass kicked.

Anyway BEN does hold the ball to try for big plays,, and yes he could get a little better with accurate timing passes.. however make no mistake about it his recievers are covered the majority of the time.. With our Talent at WR there is no way in hell that should happen.. also with our team there is no way in hell we should get matchup problems for the D.. but we never seem to get them... Id like to have a Dollar for every time Timmons is running after a TE up the seam.. hell sometimes he is even on the slot guy... also james farriors old ass is always running behind some RB... thats called coaching O coord doing their job... We never and I mean never get those things..
We never hardly use end arounds... although the one time we use it a game it gets big yards or at least good gains.
we never use the waggle, although BEN is a very mobile QB that kills teams when hes outside the pocket
we cant run screens cause this o coord cant design them.... we suck at them.. although they are a good tool for teams that keep bringing the house like the ravens do to us.
we do however call one good game about every 5.. like we did against the pats.. that was a well thought out game plan which burned their ass... but we dont back many of those games up

bottom line bud pop the tape in and watch the routes.. I havea blast breaking the film down you will see it plain as day.. BEN cant throw in rythem when the D is sitting on the route
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Old 01-19-2012, 11:18 PM   #8
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Default Re: Your misplaced Ariens Hate is telling

you're also forgetting that other QB's such as Brady and his OC, utilize their tight ends, almost to obsession. This free's up other receivers, allowing Brady a better quick read.

We would have to change our playbook to accomodate this (which i would love and think we should immediately).
Ben could be a more elite "pocket" passer without question....but the scheme around him needs a redesign. It's an impossibility in this type of coached offense.
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Old 01-19-2012, 11:20 PM   #9
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Default Re: Your misplaced Ariens Hate is telling

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I got into this with someone else in another thread, and I'm certainly willing to get into it here: Let's assume that you are absolutely right, and the problem is Ben. How and why does that make you feel any better about Bruce Arians? I just don't get it.
If I tell everybody we're going to have spaghetti, and I send you to the store to get the ingredients, and you come back with steak. Who's fault is it that we aren't going to have spaghetti? Your or mine?

What if the steelers would be putting 40 points a game on the board if Ben would just bring back the freakin spaghetti! We don't know how good an OC Ariens is if his QB won't run the designed and called play.

Does that help?
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Old 01-19-2012, 11:21 PM   #10
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Default Re: Your misplaced Ariens Hate is telling

Quote:
Ariens tries to compensate for Bens lack of ability by designing short pass plays that are easy to hit.
somebody doesn't know what they are watching but it ain't your brother.....
did you watch the NE game ? ben shredded them with THE SHORT passing game that brady always shreds the steelers with. arians apparently tossed that playbook right after the game , because we never seen that gameplan since.
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