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Old 01-23-2012, 05:38 PM   #31
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Default Re: Rooney wants old Steelers offense

I just want to see some clever playcalling. Utilising ALL the talent we have, with a QB clever enough to pull it all off.

At the end of the day it's the offenses job to score points and win games, anyone who believes Arians did a good job on this account is clearly deluded.

I just hope Ben can move forward and not act like a dick if it's sticky at first.

I firmly belive this was a great decision by ArtII
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Old 01-23-2012, 05:40 PM   #32
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Default Re: Rooney wants old Steelers offense

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Bradshaw called his own plays, and Noll occasionally sent one in, and there's a difference between a legitimate audible--"Coach thought they'd do this, but they're doing this instead" and "I don't like running the football, so I won't." I sort of agree with you about the rest. I just think that Ben is a one trick pony who everyone treats like a thoroughbred so he'll do his one trick, and should have already had the facts of life explained to him, and that he still needs to have to play team ball with a more structured offense, not completely rigid, just more structured, and I don't think he'll like even that. Look at Mark Brunnell, when he was in Jacksonville, the guy was better at improvising than BR is even capable of comprehending, but he started the play that was called, or legitimately audibled to a better one for the defense that was showing. And Coughlin held him accountable every single time he audibled, but that was over the top. And it's also the reverse philosophy of what you would think. Brunnell often audibled into running plays, because Coughlin was a believer in every offensive play should end in a touchdown, and Brunnell understood the game. BR does not.
You're comparing Roethlisberger to Mark Brunell?

Brunell?

Really?

Brunell went to the playoffs 6 times in a 16-year career and never went to a SB except as a holder for the Saints.

A friggin' HOLDER!

Ben has been to the playoffs 6 times in an EIGHT year career and he's also been to 3 SB's and won two of them.
He's responsible for nearly 30 game winning or comeback drives and you're talking about him as if he shouldn't be allowed on a football field with adult supervision.

Jeez dude, can we try to keep things in perspective?
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Old 01-23-2012, 05:44 PM   #33
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Default Re: Rooney wants old Steelers offense

I love how everyone says we were pass happy, by league average we are about middle of the pack. Its not that we pass too much it is we do not get a return on our run attempts. Maybe its the no fullback deal, or it could be we do not move or create holes for our backs. I watch the same games you guys watched and I got tired of running once or twice for little or no gain and then expect Ben to convert 3rd and 6-7-8 yds. If the pass game got going and it loosened up the LBers then when we did run some good gains we stopped and abandoned it.

Eli last night passed 58 times, and they were damn lucky to win. The 49ers ran for 150 yds and still could not score because of a below avg. QB. A balanced game plan much like what the Patriots did is going to be the most consistent. There will always be games where you have to go with what match ups are in your favor, but balance should be the way to go.

I do not believe we have the horses, either up front or RBs to have a run heavy offense, quality linemen will be hard to find and not cheap. I just hope who comes in is man enough to call his own game and not let Ben, Tomlin, or even the Front Office dictate how he does it. Let him implement his ideas based on our strengths and not just run for runs sake.

While we all moan and groan the lack of scoring, the one constant I saw from this weekends games were that all four teams, even the Patriots, put pressure on the opposing teams QB. The 49ers put a beating on Eli, the Giants front four flushed Smith all night, Brady felt the Ravens pressure and even the Patriots blew up the Ravens interior. I would like to see us return to Steeler Defense as much as I would like to see Steelers Offense. Our statistically ranked #1 defense did not look like the 49ers, Giants, or Ravens.
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Old 01-23-2012, 06:28 PM   #34
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Default Re: Rooney wants old Steelers offense

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You're comparing Roethlisberger to Mark Brunell?

Brunell?

Really?

Brunell went to the playoffs 6 times in a 16-year career and never went to a SB except as a holder for the Saints.

A friggin' HOLDER!

Ben has been to the playoffs 6 times in an EIGHT year career and he's also been to 3 SB's and won two of them.
He's responsible for nearly 30 game winning or comeback drives and you're talking about him as if he shouldn't be allowed on a football field with adult supervision.

Jeez dude, can we try to keep things in perspective?
Sure, let's keep things in perspective. You just listed the accomplishments of the Pittsburgh Steelers defense for all but 2 of Ben's years. The defense frigging dragged the offense along, and even in his 2 years under Cowher with a productive offense, the defense was the core of the team. Brunnell labored in a Jags uniform for all of his prime. BR contributed to the Steelers going to the playoffs and Superbowl. Brunnell tried to carry the Jags to success in spite of the organization. IMO Brunnell was a much better QB than BR, and I have watched both extensively. I used to live in Bubbaville. I don't hate BR as a QB, I just don't worship at his alter either. He is very good at his one trick and could have learned more had he been coached.
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Old 01-23-2012, 06:31 PM   #35
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Default Re: Rooney wants old Steelers offense

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Sure, let's keep things in perspective. You just listed the accomplishments of the Pittsburgh Steelers defense for all but 2 of Ben's years. The defense frigging dragged the offense along, and even in his 2 years under Cowher with a productive offense, the defense was the core of the team.
Cowher had dominant defenses more seasons than not for the better part of twelve years before Roethlisberger arrived in Pittsburgh and never won jack shit. Sorry, that dog doesn't hunt.
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Old 01-23-2012, 06:40 PM   #36
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Default Re: Rooney wants old Steelers offense

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I love how everyone says we were pass happy, by league average we are about middle of the pack. Its not that we pass too much it is we do not get a return on our run attempts. Maybe its the no fullback deal, or it could be we do not move or create holes for our backs. I watch the same games you guys watched and I got tired of running once or twice for little or no gain and then expect Ben to convert 3rd and 6-7-8 yds. If the pass game got going and it loosened up the LBers then when we did run some good gains we stopped and abandoned it.

Eli last night passed 58 times, and they were damn lucky to win. The 49ers ran for 150 yds and still could not score because of a below avg. QB. A balanced game plan much like what the Patriots did is going to be the most consistent. There will always be games where you have to go with what match ups are in your favor, but balance should be the way to go.

I do not believe we have the horses, either up front or RBs to have a run heavy offense, quality linemen will be hard to find and not cheap. I just hope who comes in is man enough to call his own game and not let Ben, Tomlin, or even the Front Office dictate how he does it. Let him implement his ideas based on our strengths and not just run for runs sake.

While we all moan and groan the lack of scoring, the one constant I saw from this weekends games were that all four teams, even the Patriots, put pressure on the opposing teams QB. The 49ers put a beating on Eli, the Giants front four flushed Smith all night, Brady felt the Ravens pressure and even the Patriots blew up the Ravens interior. I would like to see us return to Steeler Defense as much as I would like to see Steelers Offense. Our statistically ranked #1 defense did not look like the 49ers, Giants, or Ravens.
Our # 1 in points allowed defense had, what? 2-3 bad games all season, and those are what everyone measures. By those standards BR turned the ball over more times than the O scored in total points, which would make Cliff Stoudt a better QB. Going back to Steelers defense would get us torched in every game, and the whole entire starting D ejected every game in today's No Football League, geared toward doing whatever it takes to get the Cheatriots championships every year.
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Old 01-23-2012, 06:47 PM   #37
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Default Re: Rooney wants old Steelers offense

I am cynical enough to believe Ben or Arians was the source of this story as a way to portray Arians being canned as anything other than a performance issue
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Old 01-23-2012, 07:26 PM   #38
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Default Re: Rooney wants old Steelers offense

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Our # 1 in points allowed defense had, what? 2-3 bad games all season, and those are what everyone measures. By those standards BR turned the ball over more times than the O scored in total points, which would make Cliff Stoudt a better QB. Going back to Steelers defense would get us torched in every game, and the whole entire starting D ejected every game in today's No Football League, geared toward doing whatever it takes to get the Cheatriots championships every year.
I did not say we had bad games on defense, but I did not see the pass rush like I seen from the teams that played this weekend. Our secondary is be-moaned and crucified yet we give opposing QBs (note:Tebow did not even have to wash his jersey) more than enough time to pick them apart. SF was in Elis face all night and they have a better O-Line than we do, plus a two back system.

Listen you score more points it helps your defense. While our offense did not score in relation to the amount of yardage it generated, it did control Time of Possession which is what you want your offense to do to help rest your defense.. Now it just so happens the defense played its worst game in the playoffs, but we also lost on a drive to Baltimore when Flacco went,what, 80 yards in the last minutes of the game. And I find it funny that we moan and groan about the offense when two years ago when we missed the playoffs the defense gave up the winning score in what 4,5,6 games.

I will agree Ben has to protect the ball, along with the receivers and backs. I would like for you to at least acknowledge the Defenses inability to create turnovers themselves. The offense looked good on paper, yards, TOP, Pro Bowl players. The Defense looked more impressive on paper #1 in most categories. Both failed, one in scoring, the other in producing game changing plays. Steeler fan for 40 years+, Favorite all time Steeler is Lambert, and I could very well be wrong but I think we have bigger issues on defense than offense in the coming seasons. My opinion so feel free to knock it.
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Old 01-23-2012, 07:33 PM   #39
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Default Re: Rooney wants old Steelers offense

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Sure, let's keep things in perspective. You just listed the accomplishments of the Pittsburgh Steelers defense for all but 2 of Ben's years. The defense frigging dragged the offense along, and even in his 2 years under Cowher with a productive offense, the defense was the core of the team. Brunnell labored in a Jags uniform for all of his prime. BR contributed to the Steelers going to the playoffs and Superbowl. Brunnell tried to carry the Jags to success in spite of the organization. IMO Brunnell was a much better QB than BR, and I have watched both extensively. I used to live in Bubbaville. I don't hate BR as a QB, I just don't worship at his alter either. He is very good at his one trick and could have learned more had he been coached.
For the record, I don't worship Ben.

I don't worship any player and (gasp!) I don't even worship the Steelers.

I'm just a fan.

Yes, it bothers me when we lose but when we do, I don't think about attaching a chain to a bowling ball and go looking for a tall bridge with a low railing.

Ben has his faults (just as Bradshaw did) and maybe he could have learned more and maybe he was too pampered and maybe he was handed the keys too soon, but he is who he is.
As far as his performance in the SB goes, I, like everyone else, saw SB 40 as not so much a game he won as much as a game he didn't lose. But don't forget, he was just a second-year player and throughout the playoffs he was spot-on and he put on a clinic against Denver in the AFCC game. After all that and with two weeks to think about it, I'll spot him some nerves and allow for a less than perfect game once the SB came around.

He WAS only 22 years old at the time..

In SB 43 however, he was every bit a part of that win as anyone else on that field and the final drive was his defining moment, so please don't try to tell me that he's just been along for the ride all these years.

As for last year, hey, we came up short and yes he threw a pick, but as I recall there were a few other guys out there who didn't exactly help things either. And this year was a big yawn primarily because of an O-line that couldn't stay healthy and of course the last four weeks was all about his ankle.

That said, I agree that he (with Arians' enabling) had become too pass-happy and often even reckless, but I still believe that they were on the right track. Ben throws the ball and he lives to make something out of nothing. That's what he was put on this earth to do and to try to turn him - with those skills and an uncanny knack for finding his way out of trouble - into some sort of pocket-passing robot would be a sin.

Maybe Arians didn't (or perhaps couldn't) grasp the true potential of what we have right now, but at least he tried to point this team in the right direction and actually tried to use the passing talent we have.

Do we need a better running game?

Absolutely.

But not at the expense of ignoring Ben's skill-set or the personnel we now have to utilize it. Like I've said, Ben could benefit from more in the wisdom department and in learning when to accept a more conservative approach when the situation calls for it. But his stock in trade is his imagination and his ability to think in the moment and I wouldn't mess with any of that for all the tea in China.
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Old 01-23-2012, 08:24 PM   #40
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Default Re: Rooney wants old Steelers offense

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For the record, I don't worship Ben.

I don't worship any player and (gasp!) I don't even worship the Steelers.

I'm just a fan.

Yes, it bothers me when we lose but when we do, I don't think about attaching a chain to a bowling ball and go looking for a tall bridge with a low railing.

Ben has his faults (just as Bradshaw did) and maybe he could have learned more and maybe he was too pampered and maybe he was handed the keys too soon, but he is who he is.
As far as his performance in the SB goes, I, like everyone else, saw SB 40 as not so much a game he won as much as a game he didn't lose. But don't forget, he was just a second-year player and throughout the playoffs he was spot-on and he put on a clinic against Denver in the AFCC game. After all that and with two weeks to think about it, I'll spot him some nerves and allow for a less than perfect game once the SB came around.

He WAS only 22 years old at the time..

In SB 43 however, he was every bit a part of that win as anyone else on that field and the final drive was his defining moment, so please don't try to tell me that he's just been along for the ride all these years.

As for last year, hey, we came up short and yes he threw a pick, but as I recall there were a few other guys out there who didn't exactly help things either. And this year was a big yawn primarily because of an O-line that couldn't stay healthy and of course the last four weeks was all about his ankle.

That said, I agree that he (with Arians' enabling) had become too pass-happy and often even reckless, but I still believe that they were on the right track. Ben throws the ball and he lives to make something out of nothing. That's what he was put on this earth to do and to try to turn him - with those skills and an uncanny knack for finding his way out of trouble - into some sort of pocket-passing robot would be a sin.

Maybe Arians didn't (or perhaps couldn't) grasp the true potential of what we have right now, but at least he tried to point this team in the right direction and actually tried to use the passing talent we have.

Do we need a better running game?

Absolutely.

But not at the expense of ignoring Ben's skill-set or the personnel we now have to utilize it. Like I've said, Ben could benefit from more in the wisdom department and in learning when to accept a more conservative approach when the situation calls for it. But his stock in trade is his imagination and his ability to think in the moment and I wouldn't mess with any of that for all the tea in China.
Wow ,refreshing to read intelligent post. Agree with everything but the part about bowling ball. I am still grieving over last years SuperBowl.
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