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An important history lesson for you TRUE Steelers fans!

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Old 01-24-2012, 10:04 AM   #51
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Default Re: Rooney wants old Steelers offense

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Originally Posted by lardlad View Post
I love a strong running game like we had during most of Bettis' career. But man do we have great receivers now. Running the ball effectively will absolutely help. But it isn't the only way. I keep thinking our offense is like the golfer that spends most of his time at the driving range rather that practicing chipping and putting. We have no short game, or at least it was never done well. weather it is short passes or running, our short game sucks.

Drive for show putt for dough! I don't care how they get down field, but when the field shrinks, constantly kicking field goals ain't gona cut it.
As a golfer, I totally get the analogy.

And like any golfer who can actually play the game, balance is essential. But balance is not the same thing as playing to a strength. I, for example, have always been able to hit a long ball and get a lot out of each club. I can putt and chip and everything else, but whenever there's an opportunity to cut a corner or fly over some obstacle instead of playing around it, I can take advantage of that ability to shorten the game and make it easier to score.

In the case of football, balance is again an essential part of being a complete team. But if the strength of a team lies in its QB and its passing game, then that strength has to be used as often as possible. That doesn't mean that there shouldn't be a running game or a sound defense or any of the other things that make up a team, it just means that if a passing game is a team's strong point, it should be emphasized and used as often as is practical in order to gain the best advantage. Maybe Ben and BA over-emphasized passing and got a bit too carried away with it, but to now try to take the team back to the blue-collar identity of years past" (read: three-yards-and-a-cloud-of-dust), when our strength is clearly geared towards passing, would be silly.

It would be like me standing in a fairway knowing that I can easily fly the ball over the trees with a short iron instead opting to add strokes to the hole by going around them because going over would be too "flashy" or "not real golf".

Bullshit!
If I have the ability to go over -- I'm going over and to hell with "tradition" and all that "real golf" nonsense.

Likewise, if we have a QB who loves to throw and a receiver corps who loves to HAVE him throw, then why in the world would we want to put that on a shelf and employ a strategy that disregards that talent? Is some "blue collar image" really that important, or more important than playing to our strength?
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Old 01-24-2012, 10:30 AM   #52
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Default Re: Rooney wants old Steelers offense

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Originally Posted by Ricco Suavez View Post
I did not say we had bad games on defense, but I did not see the pass rush like I seen from the teams that played this weekend. Our secondary is be-moaned and crucified yet we give opposing QBs (note:Tebow did not even have to wash his jersey) more than enough time to pick them apart. SF was in Elis face all night and they have a better O-Line than we do, plus a two back system.

Listen you score more points it helps your defense. While our offense did not score in relation to the amount of yardage it generated, it did control Time of Possession which is what you want your offense to do to help rest your defense.. Now it just so happens the defense played its worst game in the playoffs, but we also lost on a drive to Baltimore when Flacco went,what, 80 yards in the last minutes of the game. And I find it funny that we moan and groan about the offense when two years ago when we missed the playoffs the defense gave up the winning score in what 4,5,6 games.

I will agree Ben has to protect the ball, along with the receivers and backs. I would like for you to at least acknowledge the Defenses inability to create turnovers themselves. The offense looked good on paper, yards, TOP, Pro Bowl players. The Defense looked more impressive on paper #1 in most categories. Both failed, one in scoring, the other in producing game changing plays. Steeler fan for 40 years+, Favorite all time Steeler is Lambert, and I could very well be wrong but I think we have bigger issues on defense than offense in the coming seasons. My opinion so feel free to knock it.
Successive three and outs are game changing. LeBeau made the decision to not get torched, and except for one bad game it worked. A few years ago the defense sucked because they gave up too many lucky big plays, now they suck because they did what it takes to stop doing that. The defense's job is to get the other team's offense off the field without points, everything else is gravy. Yes, forcing turnovers is great, but think about that, with the Steelers offense of the last five years unless the defense got points from the turnover, what was the point? All they did was hand the ball to our non-scoring offense, and more often than not our offense wouldn't score.
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Old 01-24-2012, 10:39 AM   #53
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Default Re: Rooney wants old Steelers offense

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You play with your strength. When the team has an elite QB, Brown, Wallace and Sanders, they should be a passing team. It doesn't mean that the Steelers should dump the running game. But the running game should be aimed at opening up the passing plays. They don't need to run more. They need a better O-line to make the running game more efficient and to give Ben time to throw.

However, I'm not against getting back a FB instead of playing 2 TEs formation. We just don't have two good TEs.
Really, like Dan Marino throwing to Clay and Duper. How'd that work out? BR is nowhere near a Marino.
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Old 01-24-2012, 10:45 AM   #54
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Default Re: Rooney wants old Steelers offense

Here's a hypothetical question just to see how pass happy some of you are. If we have a running back that gets exactly 3.5 yards per carry every time, no more, no less, ever, and the current receiving corps, QB, and defense, what it the best pass/run ratio to win games?
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Old 01-24-2012, 11:29 AM   #55
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Default Re: Rooney wants old Steelers offense

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Really, like Dan Marino throwing to Clay and Duper. How'd that work out? BR is nowhere near a Marino.
Not sure why you bring that up. I haven't said that the Steelers should get rid of their running game.
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Old 01-24-2012, 05:33 PM   #56
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Default Re: Rooney wants old Steelers offense

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Originally Posted by jiminpa View Post
Here's a hypothetical question just to see how pass happy some of you are. If we have a running back that gets exactly 3.5 yards per carry every time, no more, no less, ever, and the current receiving corps, QB, and defense, what it the best pass/run ratio to win games?
Wow genius question. We get 3.5 yds EVERY time. Lets see 3 downs 3.5 that comes out to 10.5 yds, or a first down. Now what coach will not take a first down every time. But your question hypothetical or not is mute. No team averages at least 3.5 every rush. You will have a 15 yd run a 20 yd run and then a bunch of no gains or short gains to reach that avg of 3.5.

Sorry but there is not way you will get me to believe that turnovers caused by good defense should be considered gravy. Too many games hinge on just such situations. We have won numerous games by creating turnovers, how bout Harrisons int return against the Cardinals. Last year the Ravens game were Troy stripped Flacco turned that game around. The playoffs against the Ravens after halftime, how did that game turn around so quick. We rip our offense for turning the ball over but turnovers are not always the result of bad offensive play but great defensive play. I got news for a lot of the fans here, We were not the Superior team every time we took the field, The difference is not always bad coaching either. Sometimes teams are so equal that a turnover is the difference in games, reason players are taught to strip and tip drill interceptions. The biggest difference in this years team and those in the past were the amount of turnovers we made and the lack of creating turnovers. And while I may be in the minority I worry more about the lack of defensive pressure up front than I do about the next version of this offense.
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Old 01-24-2012, 05:44 PM   #57
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Default Re: Rooney wants old Steelers offense

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Really, like Dan Marino throwing to Clay and Duper. How'd that work out? BR is nowhere near a Marino.
Last I looked I do not believe he is a Manning or Brady or Brees or Rogers either. But what he is though is a Quarterback that can play behind a swiss cheese line better than all of those with maybe the exception of Rogers. I tell another thing he is all we got unless you plan on playing Batch, Dixon,or Leftwich. Ben has served the Steelers well. While some like to point out his shortcomings like his dismal play in his first SuperBowl I remember a second year QB who put up impressive numbers thru 3 road playoff games. Who in 2008 while the offense struggled, yet Ben lead his team to nearly every comeback win that season including a Superbowl where the Steelers were 80+yds from a TD to win after the Defense gave up two fourth quarter scores. You compare Ben to Marino and ask how did that come out, well not to good for Marino as far as championships but pretty good so far for the Steelers.
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Old 01-24-2012, 05:52 PM   #58
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Default Re: Rooney wants old Steelers offense

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Originally Posted by steelfury02 View Post
A well prepared, thought out offense as featured in last year's AFC Champ game v. Jets is exactly what this team needs to be.

The healthy combo of Mendy, Redman with a healthy O-line is very capable of going buck wild over the stoutest of defenses. No - that does not mean 3 yards and a cloud of dust - but in the right situations - the running game is in order so that the defense respects it enough to set up some huge plays to the WRs. That offense that day (along with the offense against the Pats this season) looked like a team that could beat anyone, anywhere, on the biggest of stages.

More of that, and this team will steamroll anyone. Go back and watch highlights from that game. THAT Steelers team on THAT day beats the XLVI SB contenders like a bad habit

I did watch the game we ran all over them, THE FIRST HALF. The second half the Jets made adjustments and stopped the run and Arians kept running on first and second down and then had Ben try to complete 3rd and long against a very good Jets secondary. We went turtle and in the end nearly let the Jets win the game. If not for a clutch catch by I believe Brown of a roll out pass by Ben we give the ball up and anything could of happened.
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Old 01-24-2012, 06:43 PM   #59
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Default Re: Rooney wants old Steelers offense

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Originally Posted by Ricco Suavez View Post
I did watch the game we ran all over them, THE FIRST HALF. The second half the Jets made adjustments and stopped the run and Arians kept running on first and second down and then had Ben try to complete 3rd and long against a very good Jets secondary. We went turtle and in the end nearly let the Jets win the game. If not for a clutch catch by I believe Brown of a roll out pass by Ben we give the ball up and anything could of happened.
Exactly, another example of Arians getting predictable. How can anyone argue for this guy to still be here after seeing Run Run Pass so often.
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Old 01-24-2012, 08:26 PM   #60
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Default Re: Rooney wants old Steelers offense

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Wow genius question. We get 3.5 yds EVERY time. Lets see 3 downs 3.5 that comes out to 10.5 yds, or a first down. Now what coach will not take a first down every time. But your question hypothetical or not is mute. No team averages at least 3.5 every rush. You will have a 15 yd run a 20 yd run and then a bunch of no gains or short gains to reach that avg of 3.5.

Sorry but there is not way you will get me to believe that turnovers caused by good defense should be considered gravy. Too many games hinge on just such situations. We have won numerous games by creating turnovers, how bout Harrisons int return against the Cardinals. Last year the Ravens game were Troy stripped Flacco turned that game around. The playoffs against the Ravens after halftime, how did that game turn around so quick. We rip our offense for turning the ball over but turnovers are not always the result of bad offensive play but great defensive play. I got news for a lot of the fans here, We were not the Superior team every time we took the field, The difference is not always bad coaching either. Sometimes teams are so equal that a turnover is the difference in games, reason players are taught to strip and tip drill interceptions. The biggest difference in this years team and those in the past were the amount of turnovers we made and the lack of creating turnovers. And while I may be in the minority I worry more about the lack of defensive pressure up front than I do about the next version of this offense.
I'm not saying I don't want a defense to force turnovers, but it's the offense's job to score not the defense's, unless that offense is run by Arians, and then the defense had better score, because offense sure won't. It's a not a defensive breakdown when the offense can't or, as in Arians case, won't put points on the board, and the defense that is scored on least in the NFL has done the absolute most important job of a defense. If you had to choose would you rather have a defense that keeps points off the board or one that can be scored on easily but creates turnovers? Especially with when the payoff is a short punting field resulting in a touchback. The defense has been the least of our problems for the last 5 years.

It's funny that you should mention Harrison's Superbowl touchdown, because I cite that as one more example of the offense's inability to produce. Harrison should have been the MVP of that game.
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