William Gay Signs with Cardinals.

[Dodens Grav]

So you are of the belief that they did NOT play more man coverage last season than normal? That simply is not born out by observation at all. Simply by watching the games intently, it is obvious that they played more man than they probably ever had under Ray Horton. You are portraying my comment as suggesting that they are moving toward playing more man than zone, which is not what I'm saying at all. I'm simply saying that they have shifted from practically zero man coverage ever to occasionally employing it. As your quote notes, they often mixed in zone with man coverage, which further strengthens my argument. It's worth noting that the next line, which you fail to quote, is: "Other than that, it was all man all the time".

[tony hipchest]

Originally Posted by Dodens Grav

Actually, that would presumably be Keith Butler, especially after he decided not to leave this year. Most beat writers, like Ed Bouchette, speculate that he not only was again reaffirmed as the de factor successor to the defensive coordinator role, he may have even been given a specific date.

very interesting...

does he influence a change in schemes, call plays, and make his own draft picks as well?

looks like we have 2 very capable DC candidates who are already showing dick lebeau how its done. it seems we are in very good hands when he is finally shown the door.

i am very happy for the steelers.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Originally Posted by Dodens Grav

So you are of the belief that they did NOT play more man coverage last season than normal? That simply is not born out by observation at all. Simply by watching the games intently, it is obvious that they played more man than they probably ever had under Ray Horton. You are portraying my comment as suggesting that they are moving toward playing more man than zone, which is not what I'm saying at all. I'm simply saying that they have shifted from practically zero man coverage ever to occasionally employing it. As your quote notes, they often mixed in zone with man coverage, which further strengthens my argument. It's worth noting that the next line, which you fail to quote, is: "Other than that, it was all man all the time".

I am of the belief that the Steelers are not "shifting to more man schemes because Carnell Lake" now coaching the secondary. I believe that Dick Lebeau runs his defense the way he always has.

I think the Steelers played man against Brady, because he is so good at pre snap reading zones. The Steelers then tried to run more man after that, like vs Baltimore and got beaten.

You stated that the Steelers are shifting to more man coverage because of Lake, maybe that came out wrong and isnt exactly what you meant. I think they tried it vs the Pats, it worked and they tried it more.

Either way, I dont care if Will Gay leaves, we have CB's to replace him and I think he is really a nickel corner anyways. I said all season that he was doing a better job of not giving the WR a cushion than he had in the past, but he doesnt have the long speed and needed a Safety over the top to protect from that.

[Dodens Grav]

I did not say it was because of Lake that the Steelers ran more man schemes no, but I did say that he contributed to them being able to do so. I think that LeBeau desired to do so, and hiring Lake may have been a part of that desire. That desire was also reflected in Lake's comments that I alluded to earlier about why they drafted Brown and Allen; namely that they could play both zone and man. And given that Lake also said that he had his say about who he liked in the draft, I would say that Lake's influence has been a contributing factor to the marginal evolution of the secondary.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Dick LeBeau is a Hall of Fame CB. His 62 INT's rank 3rd all time among NFL cornerbacks. He also coached the secondary in Green Bay and Cincinatti for approx 10 years. I think he knows a little bit about the position.

If you want to think that Dick LeBeau could not design and coach a defense that could play man to man coverage until Carnell Lake was added to the coaching staff...........then go ahead.

[Dodens Grav]

What the **** are you talking about? I suggested nothing of the sort. You're trying my patience now by putting words in my mouth.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Originally Posted by Dodens Grav

What the **** are you talking about? I suggested nothing of the sort. You're trying my patience now by putting words in my mouth.

Your quotes are in Italics.....

The reality is that with Carnell Lake, the Steelers are shifting to more man schemes, which is reflected in their more recent draft picks,

I did not say it was because of Lake that the Steelers ran more man schemes no, but I did say that he contributed to them being able to do so. I think that LeBeau desired to do so, and hiring Lake may have been a part of that desire


You have said that it is because of Lake that the Steelers are shifting to more man coverage.

You say that you think LeBeau desired to run more man coverage and hired Lake (a career safety who played maybe half a year of corner) in order to do so.

I maintain that if Dick LeBeau wanted to run more man coverage, that he didnt need to hire a former NFL safety to do so. He could have relied on his 50+ years of playing and coaching in the NFL to do so. You make it sound like Carnell Lake is running things and causing a Hall of Fame coach to change how he draws up defensive gameplans.

[Curtain_of_Steel]

This discussion is still going on?LOL

I agree with El's last post, no way Lake is influencing Dicks play calls.

Maybe we just are not fastest enough mentalliy or physically or smart enough to play zone all the time,. I mean come on, we have watched some stupid ass coverages out there. Players loafing, ending our playoff season early. Players watching Green catch a TD and so on. Maybe Dick is just coaching down to the fools we have.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Originally Posted by Curtain_of_Steel

This discussion is still going on?LOL

I agree with El's last post, no way Lake is influencing Dicks play calls.

Maybe we just are not fastest enough mentalliy or physically or smart enough to play zone all the time,. I mean come on, we have watched some stupid ass coverages out there. Players loafing, ending our playoff season early. Players watching Green catch a TD and so on. Maybe Dick is just coaching down to the fools we have.

I think these defenses have always been predicated on pressure. When Harrison and Woodley were healthy, the secondary looks better because of the QB pressure. When there is limited pass rush...they get beat more.

Also, due to the drop off in play of Hampton, I think teams ran the ball better against us and didnt have to pass the football, which inflates statistics. Steelers have a young group at CB, but an athletic group, so I think we are OK going forward. Just need to get younger at Safety.

[zcoop]

Originally Posted by Dodens Grav

What the **** are you talking about? I suggested nothing of the sort. You're trying my patience now by putting words in my mouth.

I understand where you're coming from man. I'm sure Dick respects Carnell and does listen to his input into the process. I don't recall you stating the Dick didn't know what he was doing. Everybody knows that this is Dick's D, but he's a smart guy. And smart leaders rely on their staff to participate in their processes.

This ain't rocket science. So it is possible that Carnell influenced Dick to make some changes. C'est la vie.