Why register with the Steelers Fever Forums?
 • Intelligent and friendly discussions.
 • It's free and it's quick. Always.
 • Enter events in the forums calendar.
 • Very user friendly software.
 • Exclusive contests and giveaways.

 Donate to Steelers Fever, Click here
 Our 2014 Goal: $450.00 - To Date: $450.00 (100.00%)
 Home | Forums | Editorials | Shop | Tickets | Downloads | Contact Pittsburgh Steelers Forum Feed Not Just Fans. Hardcore Fans.

Go Back   Steelers Fever Forums > Steelers Football > Pittsburgh Steelers


Steelers Fever Fan Shop

Doc's Sports Get FREE NFL Picks and College Football picks as well as Football Lines like live NFL Lines and updated NFL Power Rankings all at Doc's Sports Service.

Steelers

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 04-06-2012, 09:03 PM   #1
NSMaster56
Living Legend
 
NSMaster56's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Pac NW
Posts: 3,521
Gender: Male
Member Number: 23979
Thanks: 10,023
Thanked 4,951 Times in 2,170 Posts
Default Tomlin riding coattails of Cowher?

Forgive me if the thread title sounds 'trolling', it's not intentional. I just don't how else to pose my 'hypothesis'.

I like Mike Tomlin. I think he's been a great coach for this team. The Rooneys clearly made a great choice in hiring him and I look forward to him behing the HC of the Steelers for some time. However, the question just recently occured to me and I don't know why it didn't hit me sooner:

Is Mike Tomlin overrated as a coach? Or, more specifically, has the success of the Steelers been more based on the seeds planted by Cowher as opposed to anything Tomlin has done?

Granted, the bulk of the Steelers success under either Cowher or Tomlin has been with Dick LeBeau as DC, so its' most likely that he is the fulcrum of the Steelers success, but I digress to my HC comparison...

Big Ben, Troy, Hines, Heath, Holmes, Hampton, Harrison, Farrior, Keisel, Ike, ... the main corps of the 2-time title winners and one-time runner-ups were all brought in by Sgt. Slaughter, not Omar Epps.

The case against Tomlin: Inability to improve the OL, misfiring on a few high draft picks (Shard/Timmons/Sweed), sticking with Arians for years despite him being the clear problem of the offensive scheme(s), dilution of the Steelers 'ground game dominance'.

The case for Tomlin: Kept the Steelers competitive despite losing good coaches like Whisenhunt/Grimm, solid later-round draft picks (Wallace/Woodley/Sanders/Brown), has reached the SB twice despite woeful OL, has transitioned the O fairly seemlessly (and Big Ben has improved as a QB) in the new 'pass first'/spread O NFL.

All things considered, it's most likely that we will not know the mettle of Tomlin until after this corps of players starts to retire/leave via FA. Cowher was quite adept at shining $h!t until it shined like gold during the penny-pinching/continual roster overturn of the 90's.

Until such time, I will wonder if Tomlin can replicate the long-term success of Noll/Cowher and hope the experience he gets now leads to such a future.
NSMaster56 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2012, 10:24 PM   #2
Steelersfan87
Assistant Coach
 

Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,476
Member Number: 18585
Thanks: 14
Thanked 40 Times in 30 Posts
Default Re: Tomlin riding coattails of Cowher?

A lot of the main points of your argument I simply don't agree with. It's not Tomlin's fault that he inherited a quality, veteran team. It's a sign of a GOOD coach to recognize the talent that he has available to him and to resist the desire to blow it up and reshape the team in his own image. For example, Tomlin was a 4-3 man.

It's quite a stretch to call the Mendenhall and Timmons picks misfires, and Sweed was considered a steal at the time. It was the right pick, it just didn't work out. As far as the ground game goes, whenever you have an elite quarterback, your ground game is most likely going to regress. Pouncey, Foster, and Gilbert are all really solid offensive line starters, and Legursky has that capability too. Keep in mind the line had a lot of injuries last year. I think the line can surprise people this year.

Let's also not forget that he is helping to reshape the secondary...well, at least the cornerbacks. He's also made some quality coaching hires so far in Sean Kugler, Al Everest, and Carnell Lake, all of whom made immediate impacts. Hopefully Todd Haley does the same.
Steelersfan87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2012, 10:41 PM   #3
55BaileyFan
Starter
 
55BaileyFan's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Ohio
Posts: 645
Member Number: 13479
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default Re: Tomlin riding coattails of Cowher?

See I agree the majority of Tomlin's success is based off a team built by Cowher; with that being said it is not his fault he inherited such a great team.

I do think Timmons and Mendenhall are not the breakthroughs they were predicted. They are not bad but not game changers at all.

Tomlin has had major issues with proving to anyone he can rebuild poor parts of our team. Our offensive line is still awful, we have not got depth at defensive line for shit and our secondary is a little above terrible.

And coaches...how the hell is Kugler, Everest and Lake quality after their short tenures? The line still sucked, our special teams was nothing amazing and our secondary was still extremely inconsistent and STILL cannot force turnovers. I think they have potential but lets not jump the game.

He is doing a good job but he is no Cowher. Cowher took over a poor and struggling Steelers team in the early 90's and turned them into a powerhouse. Tomlin is good but not Cowher good and I don't think he'll ever be Noll good.
__________________
55BaileyFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2012, 10:52 PM   #4
fer522
ACERERO
 
fer522's Avatar
 
Archery 2000 Champion! Archery Champion! Galaxians Champion! Apple Shooter Champion!
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: right here
Posts: 3,448
Gender: Male
Member Number: 16190
Thanks: 4,786
Thanked 2,370 Times in 1,047 Posts
My Mood: Mellow
Default Re: Tomlin riding coattails of Cowher?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 55BaileyFan View Post
See I agree the majority of Tomlin's success is based off a team built by Cowher; with that being said it is not his fault he inherited such a great team.

I do think Timmons and Mendenhall are not the breakthroughs they were predicted. They are not bad but not game changers at all.

Tomlin has had major issues with proving to anyone he can rebuild poor parts of our team. Our offensive line is still awful, we have not got depth at defensive line for shit and our secondary is a little above terrible.

And coaches...how the hell is Kugler, Everest and Lake quality after their short tenures? The line still sucked, our special teams was nothing amazing and our secondary was still extremely inconsistent and STILL cannot force turnovers. I think they have potential but lets not jump the game.

He is doing a good job but he is no Cowher. Cowher took over a poor and struggling Steelers team in the early 90's and turned them into a powerhouse. Tomlin is good but not Cowher good and I don't think he'll ever be Noll good.
what he said!!!!!
__________________
Sent from my house using my PC
fer522 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2012, 11:02 PM   #5
Steelersfan87
Assistant Coach
 

Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,476
Member Number: 18585
Thanks: 14
Thanked 40 Times in 30 Posts
Default Re: Tomlin riding coattails of Cowher?

The top ranked passing defense is "a little above terrible"? Did you actually just say that? I can't even take that seriously. I mean...really?

All three of those coaches made IMMEDIATE improvements to their units. Do you not remember the special teams play of 2009?

The depth at defensive line is only a recent issue due to injuries/cuts and retirements. And it's really not that much of an issue if they draft a nose tackle. Ziggy Hood, Corbin Bryant, Brett Keisel, Cameron Heyward, Casey Hampton, Steve McLendon, and a rookie...what would be wrong with that?

If the line was blocking for Peyton Manning, people would have a lot better opinion about that unit than they do blocking for Roethlisberger. Apparently people forget that. He takes more unnecessary sacks than anybody in the league. I would be perfectly happy with Gilbert-Legursky-Pouncey-Foster-Colon.
Steelersfan87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2012, 11:27 PM   #6
Bayz101
Renegade
Supporter
 
Bayz101's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Mansfield, Ohio
Posts: 8,287
Gender: Male
Member Number: 18856
Thanks: 2,061
Thanked 5,048 Times in 2,137 Posts
My Mood: Lurking
Default Re: Tomlin riding coattails of Cowher?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fer522 View Post
what he said!!!!!
What fer said he said
__________________


"Either you're playing dumb, or it's not an act". -Judge Judy

No need to drive me crazy. I can walk from here.
Bayz101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2012, 11:48 PM   #7
NSMaster56
Living Legend
 
NSMaster56's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Pac NW
Posts: 3,521
Gender: Male
Member Number: 23979
Thanks: 10,023
Thanked 4,951 Times in 2,170 Posts
Default Re: Tomlin riding coattails of Cowher?

Yeah, I'm not trying to disparage Tomlin, because it obviously takes acumen, leadership and talent to take any team, even one as talented as the Steelers, with such obvious flaws and keep them a perennial contender. Leading them them to 2 SB's is just extra gravy.

I don't think Tomlin is Barry Switzer or Jim Caldwell. He's not riding coattails that much.

He's probably closer to George Siefert or Mike Martz, if not better.

I think it will be interesting to see how the Steelers adjust the next 5 years as the corps gets older and especially whenever *gulp* LeBeau retires/leaves.

Tomlin has a chance to make a unique legacy in the NFL, should he win another title soon or later on in his (Steelers) coaching career.

Not many coaches succeed for extended periods of time after taking over from another great coach.
NSMaster56 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2012, 12:12 AM   #8
SteelerJay
Draft Prospect
 

Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 98
Member Number: 16041
Thanks: 4
Thanked 29 Times in 15 Posts
Default Re: Tomlin riding coattails of Cowher?

uhm...Cowher went 13 years without winning a Super Bowl

with the teams he had, Parcells would have won at least three..

since you're pinning player selection on Tomlin, how about these winners that Cowher had as qb's - Kent Graham, Mike Tomczak, Tommy Maddox, Neil O'Donnell.

Cowher short changed Kordell....so I won't mention him

Tomlin did a fantastic job addressing weaknesses every year..Ben suspended 4 games, Harrison missing a bunch, key injuries to others etc. . Tomlin's biggest blunder is keeping an injured Ben in all those games last year

Tomlin has done a great job using what he has...when Cowher left, he was burnt out and he thought the team was on a downward spiral. Tomlin turned that around.

Tomlin's biggest downfall will be his reliance on Big Ben....
SteelerJay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2012, 01:44 AM   #9
Steelersfan87
Assistant Coach
 

Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,476
Member Number: 18585
Thanks: 14
Thanked 40 Times in 30 Posts
Default Re: Tomlin riding coattails of Cowher?

Of course, the big elephant in the room is the fact that Tomlin inherited a franchise quarterback. How many coaches get to inherit a legitimate franchise quarterback? It generally only happens when an older coach retires (Cowher, Tony Dungy).
Steelersfan87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2012, 08:06 AM   #10
55BaileyFan
Starter
 
55BaileyFan's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Ohio
Posts: 645
Member Number: 13479
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default Re: Tomlin riding coattails of Cowher?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodens Grav View Post
The top ranked passing defense is "a little above terrible"? Did you actually just say that? I can't even take that seriously. I mean...really?

All three of those coaches made IMMEDIATE improvements to their units. Do you not remember the special teams play of 2009?

The depth at defensive line is only a recent issue due to injuries/cuts and retirements. And it's really not that much of an issue if they draft a nose tackle. Ziggy Hood, Corbin Bryant, Brett Keisel, Cameron Heyward, Casey Hampton, Steve McLendon, and a rookie...what would be wrong with that?

If the line was blocking for Peyton Manning, people would have a lot better opinion about that unit than they do blocking for Roethlisberger. Apparently people forget that. He takes more unnecessary sacks than anybody in the league. I would be perfectly happy with Gilbert-Legursky-Pouncey-Foster-Colon.
You realize we were a top passing defense this year because teams stopped throwing and ran the hell out of the ball against us right? The Texans only passed for 21 times for 138 yards because Arians ran for 155 of the Texans 180 yards rushing; and it goes on Ravens dropped 170, the shitty Colts put up 97, the Jags put up 133, the Bengals put up over a 100 and the list goes on. The Steelers on average allow one hundred yard rusher every 2 YEARS, we allowed a handful this year. If you can win running teams will do that; now, its just masked after all Tebow dropped 300 on our secondary.

D-line, you can't say "injuries" because Smith and Keisel have been having injury problems; even Hampton has. Cowher and Noll were legendary for being prepared for that. Tomlin has used a ton of picks on position guys and not enough on quality defensive lineman and offensive lineman.

I'm not bashing Tomlin because I did say he was doing a good job...obviously, we are winning. What I'm saying is that he is not as GREAT as people want you to believe. Billick won a SB and no one thinks he was an amazing coach.
__________________
55BaileyFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:59 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Shoutbox provided by vBShout v6.2.1 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.0.8 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd. Runs best on HiVelocity Hosting.
Navbar with Avatar by Motorradforum
no new posts